How To Deal

In this episode, Eli sits down with Dr. Naaila Chagani (Hudani), a child development specialist with a PhD from Tufts University, to explore the concept of "heart safety" — teaching children that their inner emotional world belongs to them and cannot be rearranged by someone else.
Drawing from both personal lived experience as a bonus mom and rigorous research, Dr. Naaila shares a compassionate, nuanced framework for helping kids recognize emotionally manipulative behaviors, trust their own instincts, and stay safe — without having to sever love from protection.
Key Takeaways
Heart safety is as important as body safety. Just as we teach kids "your body belongs to you," we need to teach them their inner world — feelings, perceptions, sense of self — belongs to them too.
Manipulation exists on a spectrum. From a tired parent saying "you're fine" to genuinely harmful conditional love — many behaviors, unintentionally or not, ask a child to ignore what they feel.
Fear and discernment are opposites. A frightened child freezes or fawns. A discerning child notices something feels off and trusts that noticing. That trust is the goal.
Children turn confusion inward as self-blame. When something feels off but no one names it, kids often conclude they did something wrong — a wound that follows them into adulthood.
The DARVO pattern (Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim & Offender) is used by highly manipulative people, and it's important for kids to know they may not always be safe to speak up directly.
Don't label the other parent — name the behavior's impact. Help children notice what doesn't feel good without putting the burden of intent analysis on them.
The loyalty bind is real. Children in high-conflict co-parenting situations often gravitate toward the more manipulative parent to stay safe — making unconditional love from the safe parent even more essential.
Start young. You can begin conversations about emotions, what feels good and what doesn't, as early as 18 months to 2 years old.
Kids are allowed to say whatever keeps them safe in the moment. They can debrief and process with a safe adult after.

About the Guest
Dr. Naaila Chagani (Hudani) is an applied developmental scientist with a Ph.D. in Child Study and Human Development from Tufts University. She specializes in the role adults play in positive youth development and helps parents navigate high-conflict and toxic co-parenting situations. She is also a bonus mom, and her personal experience navigating a manipulative co-parenting dynamic is the foundation of her work.
🌐 Website: parenting-mindfully.com
📘 Book: Seeds of Self-Trust — 25 read-aloud stories for ages 4–8 (also deeply resonant for adults)
📺 YouTube: Parenting Mindfully with Dr. Naaila Hudani
📸 Instagram: @drnaaila_parentingmindfully

Resources Mentioned
📗 Seeds of Self-Trust by Dr. Naaila Chagani (Hudani) — seedsofselftrust.com — 25 read-aloud stories for children ages 4–8 on recognizing emotionally manipulative dynamics
🏫 Making Caring Common — Dr. Rick Weissbourd's project at the Harvard Graduate School of Education on raising empathetic, ethical children — mcc.gse.harvard.edu
👤 Dr. Richard Weissbourd — Senior Lecturer & Faculty Director, Making Caring Common, Harvard GSE — Faculty Profile
📕 Street Smarts: Trust Your Instincts, Outsmart Danger, and Stay Safe in a World That Isn't by Dannah Eve — includes the "Lie to Survive" framework — Amazon
🔐 Secure Parenting Program by Eli — attachmentnerd.com/secure-parenting-program
📖 The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz — Referenced in conversation ("Don't take it personally") — Amazon

Connect with Eli
🌐 Website: attachmentnerd.com
📸 Instagram: @attachmentnerd
🎵 TikTok: @attachmentnerd

Learn more about secure parenting: https://www.attachmentnerd.com/secure-parenting-program
Connect with Eli:
Website: https://www.attachmentnerd.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/attachmentnerd/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@attachmentnerd

Music by Gold Child: https://www.goldchildmusic.com/

In this solo episode, Eli Harwood (the Attachment Nerd) unpacks one of the most misunderstood intersections in modern parenting: raising a neurodivergent child while trying to break generational cycles. With personal stories from parenting her own AuDHD daughter, Eli walks through the full sensory landscape — including the three "hidden" senses — and explains how to adapt secure attachment practices to meet your neurodiverse child where they actually are.
Key Takeaways
Neurodivergent kids experience the world through a different sensory prism — not just the classic 5 senses, but also neuroception, interoception, and proprioception. Understanding which senses your child is over- or under-sensitive to changes everything about how you approach their meltdowns.
Empathy that works for neurotypical kids can amplify distress in neurodivergent kids. When a neurodivergent child is already flooded across multiple sensory systems, offering big gooey empathy can escalate — not soothe — their dysregulation.
Accommodation is not permissive parenting. Adjusting your child's environment to match their nervous system's needs is scaffolding, not weakness. The goal is gradual growth at the stage they can handle it.
Believe them. If your child says the lights are too bright, the smell is too strong, or the touch is too much — believe them. Their nervous system is telling the truth, even if it doesn't match your experience.
Community is a survival tool. Parenting a neurodivergent child requires more regulation, more support, and more stamina than neurotypical parenting — and you cannot generate that alone.
Secure attachment with a neurodivergent child looks different. A child running to their cozy corner instead of into your arms is not rejecting you — it's their nervous system seeking the regulation it needs. Your job is to follow slowly and ask what they need.

Resources Mentioned
🔗 Big Little Feelings (Kristin Gallant) — "Believe them" — https://biglittlefeelings.com
🔗 AuDHD: Understanding Autism + ADHD Co-Occurrence — Child Mind Institute explainer: https://childmind.org/article/what-is-audhd/
🔗 Interoception & Sensory Processing Challenges — Understood.org: https://www.understood.org/en/articles/interoception-and-sensory-processing-challenges
🔗 The 8 Senses Explained for Neurodivergent Kids — Neurodivergent Insights: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/8-senses/
🔗 Weighted Stuffed Animals for Autism & Sensory Regulation — Autism Parenting Magazine: https://www.autismparentingmagazine.com/autism-and-stuffed-animals/
🔗 Secure Parenting Program (includes monthly Neurodivergent Support Group): https://www.attachmentnerd.com/secure-parenting-program

Learn more about secure parenting: https://www.attachmentnerd.com/secure-parenting-program
Connect with Eli:
Website: https://www.attachmentnerd.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/attachmentnerd/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@attachmentnerd

Music by Gold Child: https://www.goldchildmusic.com/

Episode Summary
Eli sits down with international parenting coach and author Mary Van Geffen to talk about raising "spicy ones" — those intense, strong-willed, wonderfully complex children who need more than most parenting books can offer. Together they unpack what it means to be the parent of a spicy child, how our own childhood wounds get triggered by these kids, and what it actually looks like in the messy, real moments to stay regulated and connected.
Key Takeaways
A "spicy one" is a child who is more loyal to their own soul than to your adult agenda — and that's actually a gift, not a defect.
Our spicy, strong-willed children are heat-seeking hovercrafts for whatever is unhealed inside of us.
You cannot regulate a threat — if your nervous system reads your child as danger, you must build your own capacity first.
During a violent meltdown: be the calmest person in the room, use your body not your words, and create a physically safe environment.
Playfulness — not threats, not logic — is often the fastest route back from the edge of dysregulation.
Your child's emotional intensity is not premeditated aggression; it is an "emotional seizure" they are also helpless to.
Stop making your spicy child "digestible" to others. Your job is to make them feel unconditionally and wholly loved.
Accepting how your child connects (not how you wish they would) is one of the most loving things you can do.
We need to live in hope, not fear, with our spicy ones — the script we write for them shapes their future.
The qualities we find hardest to manage in our children are often the very things we were shamed for in ourselves.

About the Guest
Mary Van Geffen is an international parenting coach for Moms of Spicy Ones® and a Spicy One herself. She is a certified Simplicity Parenting Counselor® and Professional Co-Active Coach® who has transformed the lives of over 8,000 families through her group coaching and on-demand digital courses. Her new book, Parenting a Spicy One, is a compassionate guide for raising deep-feeling, wonderfully strong-willed kids.
🌐 Website: https://www.maryvangeffen.com
📱 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/maryvangeffen
📖 Book Page: https://www.maryvangeffen.com/parentingaspicyonebook

Resources Mentioned
Books
📗 Parenting a Spicy One by Mary Van Geffen — Amazon | Author's Site
📘 Parenting by Connection (booklet series) by Patty Wipfler / Hand in Hand Parenting — Amazon
📙 Listen: Five Simple Tools to Meet Your Everyday Parenting Challenges by Patty Wipfler — Amazon
📕 Yesteryear by Caro Claire Burke (mentioned in passing) — Amazon
📗 Vera Wong's Unsolicited Advice for Murderers by Jesse Q. Sutanto (mentioned in passing) — Amazon

Research
🧠 Maternal Brain Changes & the Amygdala (referenced in discussion of sensory changes in motherhood) — The Maternal Brain and Its Plasticity in Humans – PMC

Learn more about secure parenting: https://www.attachmentnerd.com/secure-parenting-program
Connect with Eli:
Website: https://www.attachmentnerd.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/attachmentnerd/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@attachmentnerd

Music by Gold Child: https://www.goldchildmusic.com/

How to Deal with Parenting Through Play | Dr. Kim Van Dusen
Episode Summary
What if the secret to fewer tantrums, less mealtime drama, and a deeper connection with your kids wasn't stricter rules — but more play? In this episode, Eli sits down with Dr. Kim Van Dusen, PsyD, licensed marriage and family therapist and registered play therapist known as The Parentologist, to talk about how to weave playfulness into the everyday moments of parenting — even if you don't think you have a playful bone in your body. From gamifying chores to helping traumatized children feel safe, Dr. Kim shows us that play is the universal language of childhood, and learning to speak it changes everything.
Key Takeaways
You don't have to sit on the floor for 30 minutes to be a playful parent. Dr. Kim calls them "playful pockets of time" — small, creative moments woven throughout the day (swapping a fork for tongs, cutting a sandwich into a fun shape) that shift the entire energy of parenting.
Gamifying works. From racing to make the bed to "freeze clean" during chores, turning tasks into games eliminates power struggles and gets the job done — without the drama.
Play is the language of children, especially those who have experienced trauma. When kids can't (or won't) speak about their pain, drawing, playing, and creating tells the story instead — and your job is to listen to the play.
Safety and trust come before play with kids from hard places. If a child doesn't feel safe, they won't connect — and connection must come before cooperation.
Picky eating is a sensory experience. Research shows it can take up to 8–24 exposures before a child accepts a new food. Changing the texture, presentation, or even the serving vessel (hello, dump truck plate!) is exposure therapy in disguise.
Outcomes vs. Consequences: Dr. Kim prefers the word "outcomes" because it removes the punitive connotation. Natural outcomes, do-overs, and choice-giving are more effective — and less stressful — than punishment.
Structure is nurture's best friend. Playfulness and limits work together. Kids need both deep connection AND predictable boundaries to feel truly secure.

About the Guest
Dr. Kim Van Dusen, PsyD, LMFT, RPT — known as The Parentologist — is a licensed marriage and family therapist, registered play therapist, university professor, and mom of two based in Southern California. With nearly 25 years of experience, she helps parents transform their relationships with their children by learning to speak the universal language of play. She is the author of Parenting Through Play and hosts The Parentologist Podcast.
🌐 Website: theparentologist.com
📸 Instagram: @theparentologist
🎙️ Podcast: The Parentologist Podcast
📕 Book: Parenting Through Play on Amazon

Resources Mentioned
📕 Parenting Through Play by Dr. Kim Van Dusen (Amazon) — Dr. Kim's new book covering playful pockets of time, gamification, do-overs, outcomes, sensory food strategies, and more. Available in paperback and audiobook (narrated by Dr. Kim herself).
🔬 Food Exposure Research — ASHA Leader: How Many Exposures for Selective Eaters? — Research showing it takes 8–15+ exposures before a child accepts a new food.
🔬 Repeated Exposure to Food & Food Acceptability — NIH/NCBI Systematic Review — The peer-reviewed evidence base behind the food exposure approach Dr. Kim references.
🔬 Child-Centered Play Therapy for Trauma — PMC Systematic Review — Research on play therapy effectiveness for children who have experienced traumatic events.
🏡 Secure Parenting Program — Attachment Nerd

Learn more about secure parenting: https://www.attachmentnerd.com/secure-parenting-program
Connect with Eli:
Website: https://www.attachmentnerd.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/attachmentnerd/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@attachmentnerd

Music by Gold Child: https://www.goldchildmusic.com/

Episode Summary
Eli Harwood sits down with Dr. Marc Brackett — founding director of the Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence and bestselling author — to tackle one of modern parenting's biggest challenges: how do we raise emotionally intelligent kids when most of us never received an emotion education ourselves? Marc shares the science behind his RULER framework, why "there is no such thing as a bad emotion," and the practical strategies every parent needs to start using today.
Key Takeaways
Accumulate emotion knowledge first. None of us got an "emotion education" growing up — reading research-backed books and resources is step one.
There is no such thing as a bad emotion. Giving your child permission to feel — including anxiety, anger, and sadness — is a radical and necessary first step.
Your go-to regulation strategies may not work for your child. Think of your role as setting a buffet of options, not telling your child what to eat.
Emotional granularity matters. The difference between "frustrated" and "disappointed" isn't semantic — naming the exact emotion helps regulate it.
90% of negative self-talk was caught from other people. Gaslighting from caregivers in childhood becomes our inner critic as adults.
Your emotion regulation budget includes sleep, nutrition, and movement. Nine times out of ten, when a parent can't meet their own goals, poor sleep is the barrier.
Co-regulation requires non-judgment. What our kids are begging for, above all else, is a parent who won't judge them in the middle of big feelings.
Emotional intelligence is a lifelong practice — not something you master. Every day is a new opportunity.

About the Guest
Dr. Marc Brackett is the founding director of the Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence and a professor in the Child Study Center at Yale University. He is the author of the USA Today bestselling book Dealing with Feeling and the internationally bestselling Permission to Feel (translated into 27 languages). Marc is the lead developer of RULER, an evidence-based social-emotional learning framework adopted by over 5,000 schools worldwide. He also co-created the free How We Feel app with Pinterest co-founder Ben Silbermann.
🌐 Website: marcbrackett.com

Resources Mentioned
Books
📘 Dealing with Feeling by Marc Brackett — Marc's newest book on practical emotion regulation strategies
📗 Permission to Feel by Marc Brackett — Marc's landmark bestseller on emotional intelligence
📙 Mindset: The New Psychology of Success by Carol Dweck — Referenced in the conversation re: growth mindset and parenting

Tools & Apps
📱 How We Feel App — Marc's free, science-based emotion-tracking and regulation app (iOS & Android)
🎴 The Point of Connection Game — Marc's conversation card deck for building emotional connection with family and friends

Frameworks & Research
🏫 RULER Approach — Marc's evidence-based SEL framework, adopted in 5,000+ schools worldwide
🔬 Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence — Marc's research home base
❤️ Harvard Study of Adult Development — The 85-year study on happiness referenced by Eli (close relationships = #1 predictor of wellbeing)

Connect with Marc Brackett
Website: marcbrackett.com

Learn more about secure parenting:
https://www.attachmentnerd.com/secure-parenting-program
Connect with Eli:
Website: https://www.attachmentnerd.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/attachmentnerd/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@attachmentnerd

Music by Gold Child: https://www.goldchildmusic.com/