Road Cycling Academy Podcast

Summary:
Does riding at the top of Zone 2 give you a better training effect, or are you simply creating more fatigue?
It's tempting to treat Zone 2 like every other part of cycling training: if 60% of FTP is good, surely 70% or 75% must be better. But recent endurance research discussed in this episode suggests that may not be the case.
In this episode of the Road Cycling Academy Podcast, Cam Nicholls is joined by RCA head coach Ryan Thomas to discuss 2026 research comparing endurance athletes training around their first ventilatory threshold with athletes completing their easier sessions at a lower intensity.
Both groups improved performance, with no statistically significant difference in improvements between them. The important difference was fatigue: the athletes training closer to their first ventilatory threshold experienced greater fatigue.
Cam and Ryan discuss what that could mean for cyclists and why constantly pushing towards the top of Zone 2 may create unnecessary training load without providing a corresponding performance benefit.
They also explain why Zone 2 shouldn't be defined by power alone. While 55% to 75% of threshold provides a broad practical range, Ryan explains why perceived exertion, recovery and how you feel on a particular day should influence where you ride within that range.
For many recreational cyclists, that might mean being perfectly comfortable riding at 55% or 60% of threshold rather than constantly chasing 70% to 75%.
In this episode:
What Zone 2 means from a physiological perspective
Using the first lactate or ventilatory threshold to define Zone 2
The practical 55% to 75% of threshold power range
How often recreational cyclists should include Zone 2 training
Why Zone 2 should remain part of a structured cycling program
How short periods above Zone 2 can change the stimulus of an endurance ride
What the 2026 endurance study compared
Training at VT1 versus 10% to 15% below VT1
Why VT1 doesn't occur at exactly the same percentage for every athlete
Why riding at 75% of threshold feels very different from riding at 60%
The performance results between the two training groups
Why the higher-intensity group accumulated greater fatigue
When riding at the top of Zone 2 could be treated as a specific workout
Why Ryan generally prescribes a 60% to 70% range for Zone 2 rides
How RPE can help determine the appropriate intensity on a given day
Why riding at 55% of threshold can still be completely appropriate
Using easier endurance rides to recover between high-intensity sessions
Why consistently chasing the top of a training zone may not be necessary
How the same principle could potentially apply to tempo and VO2 training
Why years of consistent training matter more than pushing a single workout harder
The practical message isn't that riding at the top of Zone 2 is always wrong. It's that you don't necessarily need to chase the upper limit on every endurance ride. If riding a little easier produces the required training stimulus while allowing you to recover better for your harder sessions, there may be little reason to push harder simply because you can.
Road Cycling Academy helps recreational and amateur cyclists train smarter, improve their performance and get more from the limited training time they have available.
If you're unsure why your cycling performance has plateaued or where the biggest opportunities are in your current training, RCA's Performance Breakthrough Call can help identify potential weaknesses and areas to focus on.
#RoadCycling #Zone2 #Zone2Training #CyclingTraining #EnduranceTraining #CyclingPerformance #CyclingCoach #TrainingScience #RoadCyclingAcademy #RyanThomas
Transcript:
Cam Nicholls (0:01)
Welcome to the RCA podcast designed for recreational and amateur road cyclists with a focus on performance. We dive into cycling training, nutrition, strength training for cyclists and even bike fitting tips, all designed to help you train smarter, ride faster and hopefully tear your mate's legs off. So without further ado, let's dive into today's episode.
Welcome back to the RCA podcast, which is also on YouTube. Today I'm joined by the RCA's head coach, Ryan Thomas. And today we're going to talk about some 2026 research, Ryan, in endurance sports, but not cycling, it's running.
Not all the good papers are in cycling, unfortunately. And the question we're going to answer is, does riding harder in zone two make you faster? And it's pretty tempting when you're riding in zone two, just to go right to the top of, if you're talking about FTPs, you know, 75% of FTP and just ride there all day long because it's at the top.
But what we'll find out here is it's not necessarily the most optimal.
Ryan Thomas (1:05)
Yeah. Honestly, it's probably one of the most common things I see when we get a new athlete or you talk to someone, it's like, I really want to, it's just the nature of trying to improve is you think you need to push the, like push the limits a little bit. Most of the time, try and push the limits, but it's actually not the case in this.
And there's good reasons for it, but it's kind of against what most people think. I think a lot of experienced riders and professional athletes understand why this is the case, but yeah, it's definitely not a ride harder to get stronger scenario.
Cam Nicholls (1:39)
Okay. So before we go dig into the research, let's just talk about what is zone two first, because everyone seems to have different views of it. In fact, in the performance breakthrough call I have with people before they joined the RCA, I often ask them, I'm doing zone two, what's zone two to you?
And often you get very different answers. So let's just, for the purpose of this video, set the expectation from a scientific point of view, what's zone two?
Ryan Thomas (2:05)
Under your lactate or ventillary threshold one. So the first turn point in your internal physiology.
Cam Nicholls (2:14)
Okay. And then from a practical standpoint, so we've got heart rate and we've got power. Let's talk about power because it's the one we typically use the most.
What is zone two from a power or FTP perspective?
Ryan Thomas (2:30)
Yeah. 55 to 75% of your threshold marker, which is a massive range, right? 20% of any sort of power range is just quite large.
So hence the question.
Cam Nicholls (2:41)
Yeah. So before we get to the research and we talk about riding in zone two, I also want to ask you how often should recreational riders be riding in zone two? Because once again, this is having these performance breakthrough calls with people.
I'm finding out some people are riding two or three times a week. It's actually a lot of people just ride two or three times a week. And some people are riding five or six times a week.
And then some people are riding differently in winter than they are in summer. Like for example, one guy recently said to me, I do a lot of zone two in winter and then when it gets to summer, I don't do any zone two. So my view is from the research and from our coaching and this can get your, your input here is zone two.
It should be a mainstay really in any program for cycling.
Ryan Thomas (3:22)
Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah.
Oh, it comes down to how many times you ride per week. But if you're most people are riding four to six times a week, if you're riding under that, then yeah, it kind of moves the ballpark a little bit. But if you're riding three to five times a week, probably yeah, two to three times in zone two, less than that, maybe take one out and do two instead of three.
But it's, yeah, you need, it needs to be there. It's a long-term progression. It's used for many different reasons, but you can't just take it out, expect that it's going to be filled with something else.
Yes.
Cam Nicholls (3:56)
Yeah. I have a three ride rule kind of, but it's a bit of a blanket, but if you're doing any more than three rides per week, you should definitely be doing at least one, maybe two zone two rides in your week to split up the intensity and also keep the cycling adaptations moving forward without putting too much physiological stress on yourself. And even for people that say, oh, I'm just riding three times a week.
I say, well, can you ride more? And often they're like, oh, I'm not sure. What if you just did one half hour ride per week on the trainer at zone two, but that by the end of the month, you've done two hours of additional aerobic training you wouldn't have already done.
Times out by three months, you've done six hours. It all adds up. When you look at the data and you're looking at zone two and you're looking at recreationals riding in zone two, what are you typically saying?
Maybe when they first start working with RCA and then obviously we'll talk about what happens after, but initially what are they doing?
Ryan Thomas (4:44)
Yeah. It's generally not dedicated zone two. So they think it's zone two or endurance.
It feels easy, but usually accumulating a lot of intensity in there, but yeah, once to twice a week, maybe if they're riding five, five, six times a week, they might be doing an easy zone two ride. And most of the time it's the actual ride itself.
Cam Nicholls (5:05)
What they think is zone two is not. Okay. So they're pushing like beyond or above that 75%.
Maybe spending more time in tempo, which is zone three. So 80, 85% of FTP.
Ryan Thomas (5:16)
Yeah. And it's just micro accumulation, like on a short 30 second climb, they might go to VO2 or anaerobic, but if you do an hour and a half, two hour ride and you do that 20 times, there's 10 minutes in anaerobic zone that you have changed the stimulus completely.
Cam Nicholls (5:31)
Yes. Yep. Okay.
So what does the research say then?
Ryan Thomas (5:35)
Yeah. So this paper was quite interesting. It's super recent, like Cam said before, it's 2026 runners.
What they did was they got people to do two to three intensity sessions per week. So they were normalized across the groups. Then the other runs that they were doing during the week, either at VT1, so the Ventilatory Threshold 1, like right at it.
Cam Nicholls (6:00)
Right at it, which in the equivalent of percentage of FTP would be, even though it's an estimate and it's not scientific, that would be 75% of FTP.
Ryan Thomas (6:08)
Usually the top end of zone two. Yeah. And I did a trend about this recently and there's the evidence for where VT1 actually sits in your threshold and- It's variable.
What type you are. It could be 50%, it could be 80%. So it's very variable while we're taking the research from what it is.
VT1 will say it's the top of zone two because that's usually where it sits. They were running at that top of zone two in their easy zone two days. That's what they were doing.
The other group were doing 10 to 15% under that VT1. So as a relative term and threshold, so VT1, they're riding at 75%. The other group's riding at 60% or 65% of threshold, which you will anyone listening to this or watching is you're riding at 75% feels a whole lot harder than riding at 60% of threshold.
They're very different sensations. But yeah, I thought it was super interesting. It's so applicable to the everyday cyclists and what actually happens if you are riding it.
Cam Nicholls (7:06)
This podcast is brought to you by the Road Cycling Academy. Corey increases FTP by 31 watts, Trin by 24 watts, Nicholas by 14 watts, and Steve, he reduces heart rate by nine beats per minute riding zone two on his regular 100-kilometer loop. What do all these riders have in common?
Well, they've all left five-star Google reviews for the Road Cycling Academy based on their experiences with our off-the-shelf cycling plans. And here's the thing, our head coach, Ryan Thomas, has spent the last 12 months rebuilding our plans, going deep on science-based principles such as pyramidal, polarized, and sweet spot training. Unlike other platforms, you don't actually purchase a specific plan with the RCA.
You purchase a duration instead, either six or 12 weeks. From there, you'll fill out a form and our coaches will recommend the best plan for you. That's included in the price, which is 97 USD for a six-week plan or 147 USD for a 12-week plan.
Everything's delivered through TrainingPeaks, which integrates with all mainstream cycling computers and indoor training platforms. But to celebrate the launch, we're offering 30% off those prices for a limited time. Head to the Road Cycling Academy website, find our off-the-shelf plans, and use code RCAPLANS30 at checkout and get stuck in to some of our new plans.
So the result was both groups improved running performance and neuromuscular measures with no statistically significant differences in improvements between groups. So by riding at your top of your zone two, it doesn't make a difference.
Ryan Thomas (8:45)
Yeah. No. Well, theoretically, yeah, there's no performance benefit.
Cam Nicholls (8:49)
Except for fatigue in the training load. So it adds additional fatigue.
Ryan Thomas (8:54)
Yeah.
Cam Nicholls (8:54)
So one could therefore speculate or argue that you do this sustained over many weeks, many months, and you're constantly riding at the top end of zone two. And there's more of a physiological cost in doing that, but no physiological benefit as such. So there's more of a likelihood you're going to burn out faster.
Ryan Thomas (9:16)
100%. Yeah. And that was the main takeaway for me.
Like riding at top end zone two, as a coach, how I look at this and how you should look at it as a recreational athlete is if you want to ride at top of zone two, do it specifically, do it as an interval session. So riding at top of zone two, the research shows it's more fatiguing. There's not much performance benefit, but it does, they looked at pure performance.
There might be underlying physiological benefits for lifting that VT1 slightly, but you need to treat it as an interval session. It's a hard workout because it's focused. It's adding fatigue.
The research shows it adds a cumulative fatigue. One session isn't going to change the fatigue levels. It's over many, many weeks.
If you're doing high zone two all the time, it's massive fatigue. It just adds and adds and adds. Yes.
In the paper though, essentially the RPE rating and the fatigue levels and the markers of fatigue that they looked at was much higher in that VT1 group versus low zone two group.
Cam Nicholls (10:18)
Yes. So practical applications, I go back to my early days as a cycling coach and I was guilty of suggesting 70% of FTP. The reason, and my reasoning wasn't scientific, it was all based off of speaking with recreationals and the practicality of it is if you don't have, if somebody comes or steps into structured training and they lean into zone two and they start doing zone two and they haven't done it before and they're used to riding at kind of a higher intensity most rides, asking them to go to 60% of FTP for a zone two may be very challenging for them because it's going to not feel like they're doing much and therefore they may not stick with it.
So my theory was, or my thought process was always, well, 70% is at the top end. You might feel a little bit more like you're doing something and if you feel like you're doing something, then you may be more likely to stick with it. So let's do 70% of FTP.
No scientific basis, but I felt practical. What are your thoughts on that? And how do we look at something like that scenario and then factor in this research paper?
Ryan Thomas (11:22)
Yeah. So if I'm going to schedule a zone two ride, it's usually 60 to 70%. Like a very big zone two is usually 60 to 70.
If you're in the trainer, that's going to pluck you in at 65, which is right in the ballpark. If you're riding outdoors and you've got a 10% window to ride at, and the reason I like giving a window is some days you feel good. Some days the heart rate will be lower.
The RPE is lower. You can ride at 70% and that's completely fine. It might feel easy.
Other days, 60% might feel like 70%. So it is really important that the middle of that zone isn't always the right area to be, or 70% or 60%. There's always a window there that you need to adjust as an athlete and trust your instincts and trust how you feel because at the end of the day, RPE is sitting over here that you need to consider as well.
It's not just threshold. It's not just power. It's how does it actually feel to you?
There's a lot of people who will go out and, oh yeah, it feels hard or it feels too easy or either one, but zone two for me is yes, we're getting aerobic stimulus, but it's also about breaking up and giving you recovery for those high intensity days. So I would prefer those zone two days to be easier than harder, like go to 55%. That's fine.
If I see a training ride and someone's ridden at 55% for 65 and that doesn't bother me whatsoever. I would prefer you to be easier than harder because the harder we know from research and watching many people do these rides week in, week out, and when we see these people come from performance breakage calls, it's yeah, when you take that intensity or that little bit of higher riding out, then usually you see some pretty good adaptation because they recover.
Cam Nicholls (12:59)
Yep.
Ryan Thomas (13:00)
Yep. Okay, good.
Cam Nicholls (13:01)
Well, I guess the key takeaway then is like if people are incorporating zone two and they take that rate of perceived exertion into account, it doesn't matter if you're doing less at in zone two, you'll still get the same adaptations. So do it. Don't get anxious or don't be concerned that you're not at 70% because according to this research, you're going to get the same result.
Ryan Thomas (13:22)
Yeah. Yeah. And I just a little side note is I think this, this research can, you could almost take this across the majority of the zones.
So riding in tempo, for example, doing a 80 to 90% threshold effort. Why ride at 90%? Like the adaptation is probably going to be pretty similar.
So get the same adaptation, a little bit less fatigue and just stack the workouts. Same with VO2. You can apply this to majority of the zones.
And I know there's a lot of professional athletes out there and there's a lot of people that do that type, do that, apply that across their zones so that the consistency is the big part. It's not the one session doesn't make you a great athlete. It's years of consistent work.
Cam Nicholls (14:03)
Yep.
Ryan Thomas (14:03)
Cool. All right. Thanks for your time, Ryan.
Cam Nicholls (14:05)
If you're out there listening and you're getting value out of that and maybe you're actually stuck on a performance plateau right now and you're a little bit confused about why that's the case, at the RCA, we've got a three minute quiz, 12 questions. We'll send you a bespoke report after the quiz. We'll link to that below and we'll catch you in the next podcast.

Summary:

Shimano has introduced a new Dura-Ace pedal system with a lower stack height, reduced weight and a redesigned cleat. But has improving one part of the system created a bike fitting problem somewhere else?
In this episode of the Road Cycling Academy Podcast, Cam Nicholls is joined by expert bike fitter Neill Stanbury to take a close look at Shimano's new SPD-SLR pedal and cleat system.
Neill explains why the approximately 2.3 mm reduction in stack height is a positive change, bringing the rider's foot closer to the pedal axle and potentially creating a more direct feel at the pedal. The complete system is also slightly lighter than its predecessor.
But there's an important trade-off.
While the new cleat retains some lateral adjustment, Neill measures only around 2 mm of fore-and-aft adjustment compared with approximately 12 mm on the previous system. When he compares the rearward cleat positions, he estimates the new SPD-SLR cleat sits roughly 8 mm further forward on the shoe.
That's particularly relevant for cyclists who prefer a more rearward cleat position or require greater adjustment as part of their bike fit.
Neill explains how Shimano's own shoes partly address the issue through a sliding captive plate inside the shoe, shifting some of the adjustment that previously existed at the cleat into the shoe itself. That leads to a broader discussion about shoe compatibility, Q-factor, stance width and why a few millimetres of adjustment can matter considerably for some riders.
Cam and Neill also discuss what they'd like Shimano to do next, including offering different pedal spindle lengths to give cyclists and bike fitters significantly more control over Q-factor.
Neill's final verdict? There are some genuine improvements, particularly the lower stack height, but the reduction in fore-and-aft cleat adjustment prevents the new system from getting his full approval.
In this episode:
What's changed with Shimano's new Dura-Ace pedal system
Why Shimano may have redesigned its pedal and cleat system
The difference between SPD-SL and the new SPD-SLR system
Why a lower pedal stack height can be beneficial
The approximately 2.3 mm reduction in stack height
Why the new pedal and cleat system is slightly lighter
Why the new cleats aren't backwards compatible with the previous pedals
Lateral cleat adjustment and its relationship with Q-factor
Why small changes in stance width can matter for some cyclists
Using adapters and the effect they have on stack height
Why Neill is concerned about reduced fore-and-aft cleat adjustment
How much fore-and-aft adjustment the previous cleat offered
Why more rearward cleat positions can be useful in bike fitting
How removing the captive washer helped Shimano reduce stack height
Why the new cleat may sit further forward than the previous system
How Shimano shoes use a sliding captive plate for additional adjustment
What the new pedal system means for cyclists using other shoe brands
Neill's idea for interchangeable Shimano pedal spindle lengths
How different spindle lengths could improve Q-factor adjustment
Neill's overall verdict on the new Dura-Ace pedals
The new Shimano system brings genuine improvements in stack height and weight, but cyclists shouldn't look at those changes in isolation. Cleat position, shoe compatibility, Q-factor and the amount of adjustment you personally require can all influence whether the new system is a good fit for you.
Road Cycling Academy helps recreational and amateur cyclists train smarter, improve their performance and get more from the limited training time they have available.
If you're unsure about your cleat position or want to better understand your overall position on the bike, RCA's Bike Fit Fundamentals provides a step-by-step approach to understanding and improving your bike setup.
#RoadCycling #ShimanoDuraAce #Shimano #BikeFit #CyclingPedals #CleatPosition #CyclingTips #CyclingPerformance #RoadCyclingAcademy #NeilStanbury
Transcript:
Cam Nicholls (00:01)
Welcome to the RCA podcast, designed for recreational and amateur road cyclists with a focus on performance. We dive into cycling training, nutrition, strength training for cyclists and even bike fitting tips, all designed to help you train smarter, ride faster and hopefully tear your mates' legs off. So without further ado, let's dive into today's episode.
Welcome back to the RCA podcast, which is also on YouTube. Today I'm joined by expert bike fitter Neil Stanbury. And today, Neill, we're in a new studio.
Our podcast listeners won't know that, but our YouTube watchers will. And I think we might've gone a bit too professional. This one is very serious, mate.
Neill Stanbury (00:43)
Yeah. It's pretty fancy, isn't it? Better than the dungeon in my house that we've been using for years.
Cam Nicholls (00:43)
Yes.
Neill Stanbury (00:43)
Or the dungeon where my clinic is located.
Cam Nicholls (00:43)
Yeah, exactly.
Neill Stanbury (00:43)
It's very upmarket. I like it. I hope it lends some, like, an air of credibility to our deliberations, but probably not.
Let us know what you think below.
Cam Nicholls (00:59)
But today we're going to talk about the new Shimano Dura-Ace pedals, which has a funny story behind it because you said to me, "I want to do a video on the new pedals, but I can't get my hands on any."
And I said, "Well, buy some and then you can sell them to somebody in your clinic."
And you said, "I'm not going to sell these to anyone in my clinic."
Sure. I'm going to be able to sell these, but maybe we could give them away.
Okay. Maybe we could give them away to a viewer.
All right. So you're going to bag them and then we're going to give them away.
This will be the first time in internet history.
Neill Stanbury (01:28)
It is quite possible. There'll be some subtle criticism directed at Shimano headquarters here from me, but you've come to expect that from me, viewers. So, you know, this is nothing too new, I guess.
Cam Nicholls (01:37)
Okay. So just before you go, we will give them away. If somebody wants to go into the giveaway, and we'll chuck in an RCA cap to sweeten the deal, we'll put a link below and we'll give them away at Christmas time to a lucky viewer.
Neill Stanbury (01:48)
Very nice. And these are the Dura-Ace ones. So these are the top-shelf ones.
These have come express. These have just come into Australia. We could barely get them.
You know, it was a real struggle to get them. I couldn't buy a set of cleats individually. Could only buy the pedal system at the moment, and there's no Ultegra and no 105 as yet.
So these are hot off the press. First new Shimano pedal system in 30-odd years or something like that. Kind of exciting.
I was excited when I saw them come out until I saw the cleat.
Cam Nicholls (02:15)
Okay. So let me explain. Neil? I think it's interesting though.
Why did Shimano decide after 30 years to change the pedal system? Because from what I understand, their patent ran out in 2022, a whole bunch of clones come into the market, taking their market share, and all of a sudden they decide after many decades, "Oh, we should create a new pedal system."
Neill Stanbury (02:35)
It is quite possible that that was part of the deliberations. Yeah. Like, I won't speculate, but it's a good observation and it could have something to do with that.
The other part of it could be to nudge people more towards the Shimano ecosystem, particularly of their shoes, which we'll talk about in a second as to why that is important.
But yeah, let's give you a bit of a rundown on how these differ from your traditional SPD. So these are called the SPD-SLR.
They have a lower stack height, which is the big thing. They're 2.3 millimetres or so lower stack height, and Shimano has basically done that by thinning out the cleat.
Now, I'm not sure if your viewers will be able to see this from home, but the one on my right, your left, is an old-style SPD-SL cleat.
And on your right, my left, we've got the SPD-SLR. Very, very similar in general to look at. A little bit of a different profile and shape like this.
From the side though, it is possible to see that the cleat is essentially thinner.
The way that they've made it thinner, which lowers the stack height of the cleat.
Cam Nicholls (02:35)
Which is a good thing, isn't it?
Neill Stanbury (02:35)
Great thing.
Cam Nicholls (02:35)
Okay.
Neill Stanbury (02:35)
Yeah. 2.3 millimetres is good. I think it's getting down near Speedplay now, which is pretty good.
Cam Nicholls (02:35)
Okay.
Neill Stanbury (02:35)
It is good because it gives you a more direct feel of power transfer over the centre of the pedal.
So the lower it is, the lower down your foot is relative to the pedal centre, the more direct it's going to feel.
And conversely, if you've got a pedal system with a really high stack height, and I'm exaggerating slightly here, your foot is going to feel rotationally unstable.
You're going to have a lot of what we call rocking torque over the centre of axis of rotation.
So the lower that stack height is, the closer it is to the sole plate of the shoe, the thinner the sole plate of the shoe is, the thinner the orthotic is, all of that sort of stuff, the better it generally feels.
Right. So it does come with another added advantage, which is the lower it is, the lower your seat height can be.
So if someone's switching from these guys to these guys, that's right, my 2.3 millimetres of aerodynamics.
And when you're a professional, like WorldTour-level rider, like you and me, this 2.3 millimetres is a pretty big deal.
So, you know, at 60 k's an hour, which I'm regularly riding at, that aerodynamics is pretty important, mate.
Cam Nicholls (04:37)
The whole pedal system is lighter as well.
Neill Stanbury (04:37)
It's a little bit lighter.
Cam Nicholls (04:37)
Like 10 grams.
Neill Stanbury (04:37)
Yeah, 10 grams.
Cam Nicholls (04:37)
Yeah, yeah. Which is important as well, if you're a good rider.
Neill Stanbury (04:37)
Yes, it is.
I trimmed my fingernails last night. There's 10 grams right there.
Cam Nicholls (04:46)
Yes.
Neill Stanbury (04:46)
Now let's talk about the differences.
The cleat system is not backwards compatible, so you can't have an SPD-SL pedal and use an SPD-SLR cleat.
So you have to buy the new pedal with the cleat. Won't go in, won't engage properly.
So it is a full ecosystem. It's a pedal and a cleat that go together.
You've got a lower stack height, slightly less rotating mass.
You've got similar levels of lateral adjustment. So your SPD-SLs have got roughly six millimetres of side-to-side adjustment.
Your SPD-SLR has got somewhere between four and five, as far as I can measure in the real world.
Now that's better than I thought it was going to be from some of the stuff that I'd seen online.
I thought there was going to be very little lateral adjustment here, but there is a bit.
Now this is important because it moves your feet in and out, closer or further away from the bike, right?
Q-factor adjustment is, like, for me, hypercritical. I've seen people that are so sensitive to Q-factor that two or three millimetres off causes them pain.
So, you know, if you're a very sensitive rider to your Q-factor and you've got a set of SPD-SLs, for example, and the cleat is maxed out towards the inside edge of the shoe, and you've got your stance width as wide as you possibly can, these ones might not quite get you as far.
Cam Nicholls (04:46)
But you can get an adapter?
Neill Stanbury (04:46)
Yeah, you can use some of the three-bolt adapters, which instantly add three mil of stack height back into the system, and they don't clip in that well.
I would try and avoid the adapters if possible.
Cam Nicholls (04:46)
But you're going to get less or more Q-factor potentially.
Neill Stanbury (04:46)
If you're maxed out one way or the other, you might be missing out on a little bit of that adjustment.
Cam Nicholls (04:46)
Okay.
Neill Stanbury (04:46)
Now, my big gripe.
Those things are all okay.
Cam Nicholls (04:46)
So it's just the one gripe you've got?
Neill Stanbury (04:46)
I've got, it's new and it's not backwards compatible. It is lighter, which is all that sort of stuff.
My big gripe is the fore-and-aft adjustment.
Cam Nicholls (04:46)
Yeah.
Neill Stanbury (04:46)
The Q-factor is not too bad. The fore-and-aft adjustment is essentially almost zero.
Cam Nicholls (06:47)
This podcast is brought to you by the Road Cycling Academy.
If you're struggling with a sore back, numb hands, neck pain, or simply feel uncomfortable on the bike, or worse yet, you feel like your power transfer is not optimal, our Bike Fit Fundamentals program could be exactly what you need.
Created by the world-renowned bike fitter, Neil Stanbury, Bike Fit Fundamentals is a simplified online step-by-step program that helps you understand and improve your position on the bike.
One of our RCA members recently, via a Google review, shared that for years he suffered from lower back pain and numb arms while riding.
He tried professional bike fits, different saddles, stems and countless adjustments. Sound familiar? But nothing seemed to work.
He couldn't ride for more than two hours without back pain.
After working through Bike Fit Fundamentals, he made a series of changes to his Q-factor, that's stance width, saddle position, cleat setup and his cockpit.
The result, he was able to increase his training volume from circa six hours per week to over 12 hours a week with no back pain.
What he loved most wasn't just the outcome. It was finally understanding what to change, why to change it and what he should feel like when it's done right.
If you'd like to become more comfortable, more efficient and get more out of every ride, check out Bike Fit Fundamentals on the Road Cycling Academy website with Neil Stanbury.
Now let's get back to the podcast.
So for those of you who don't know what fore-and-aft adjustment is, some may not. Just moving the cleat forwards and backwards.
Neill Stanbury (08:31)
Forward and backwards.
Cam Nicholls (08:31)
When you showed me what you could do in the old system, then I was like, "Whoa, okay, now I know what you're talking about."
Neill Stanbury (08:31)
Yeah, so this is it, right?
It's about two or three millimetres. On your old SPD-SLRs, you've got 10 to 12, right?
Heaps of fore-and-aft adjustment, and this for me as a fitter is kind of a bit of a problem because there is a trend, or what would you call it, an understanding of cycling biomechanics, which is starting to spread through the zeitgeist, through my world, that generally speaking, more rearwards cleat positions are generally speaking good most of the time for most people.
I won't delve into why that is. I think we've done other videos on cleat positioning and midfoot cleat positioning and further backwards and all that sort of stuff, and what are the pros and cons, but having this adjustability is pretty good.
I like it. It means I can put the cleat wherever I want, and having this is a bit of a problem.
Now, how does Shimano, how are they kind of explaining this away?
What you've got, right, is you've got these recesses where the bolt centres sit, and they've removed the captive washer system, which sits typically underneath the bolts, right?
That captive washer system allows the side-to-side and the fore-and-aft, and that unfortunately adds a little bit of stack height.
So in the new system, they've removed the washers so that the flange of the screws is just bolting straight down onto the polycarbonate or whatever the cleat is made out of, some sort of nylon-reinforced plastic, right?
So you've removed the captive plates, which is how you've lowered the stack height, and that's also where the loss of weight comes from because the screws are slightly shorter.
They have slightly shorter shaft length, right? So it makes it a little bit lighter.
But in doing so, you've had to give up either fore-and-aft adjustment or lateral adjustment.
Now, I think they've probably done the right thing here. They've kept a fair bit of the lateral adjustment, but they've had to give up the fore-and-aft adjustment.
Otherwise, the flange of the screws is going to ride off the inside edge of that cleat, and it's not going to clamp down properly.
Cam Nicholls (10:29)
Right.
So that four to five millimetres you referenced relative to the 12 millimetres with the original? Is it 12 millimetres?
Neill Stanbury (10:36)
Side-to-side, the original is like six. This is about four.
Cam Nicholls (10:36)
Yeah.
Neill Stanbury (10:36)
Fore-and-aft, I would say this is probably two millimetres.
Cam Nicholls (10:44)
Oh, two millimetres. And what's that one?
Neill Stanbury (10:44)
About 12.
Cam Nicholls (10:44)
About 12.
So do you know where that two millimetres is relative to the 12?
Neill Stanbury (10:50)
Yes, actually.
Cam Nicholls (10:51)
Is it lower or is it higher?
Or is it in the middle? Like, where is it?
Neill Stanbury (10:52)
I've just had a look.
And essentially, when the cleats are maxed out rearwards, I'll just try and line these up.
Looking at the centreline locations, the SPD-SLR cleat is roughly eight millimetres further forward on the shoe compared to the old system.
So essentially, you're not going to be able to get the cleat back as far by around eight millimetres.
For people playing along at home, you're going to miss out on eight mil of rearwards travel.
Cam Nicholls (11:17)
So for people that like the rear position or that are following the crowd at the moment with rear is better, more powerful, then somewhat of a problem.
Neill Stanbury (11:26)
Somewhat of a problem.
Now, the way that Shimano have gotten around this problem, Shimano shoes have got what I call a sliding captive plate system inside the shoe where your threaded inserts are.
That sliding captive plate allows the cleat to move forwards and backwards.
And my old Lake 237s here from 15 years ago have got a little bit of this plate.
These have got around six mil of fore-and-aft travel. You might be able to make that out in the footage there.
The Shimano ones have got a fair bit more. It's around 12 millimetres.
They've elongated those slots and that allows you to move it forward, back.
Now, if you've got a shoe that's got that amount of fore-and-aft travel, this is not going to be such a big problem, right?
Unless you're looking for real extreme. Again, you're still going to miss out on eight mil of travel.
So if you've got a cleat position that's 30 or 35 millimetres behind the ball of your foot, you're going to miss out on eight mil of that no matter what, right?
But if you do have a Shimano shoe with the sliding captive plate system, you're going to have a bit of play fore-and-aft still, around 10 or 12 millimetres.
So they've removed the adjustability from the cleat and they've put it into the shoe.
Cam Nicholls (11:26)
Okay.
Neill Stanbury (11:26)
So works great if you're using Shimano shoes.
Cam Nicholls (11:26)
Don't you have to use Shimano shoes?
Neill Stanbury (11:26)
You don't have to.
These are mounted on a pair of Lakes, but you lose a huge amount of the adjustability.
Cam Nicholls (11:26)
I see. Okay.
Neill Stanbury (11:26)
Yes. So the cynic in me would say that perhaps this is a move to try and either nudge people towards Shimano shoes or to induce other shoe manufacturers to create more adjustable captive sliding plate systems for their shoes.
Which I think is actually a good thing in some way.
If we could get that, because I think it's one of the features that I love.
Cam Nicholls (13:07)
Do you think Shimano have done it for the greater good?
I was just, I was processing that going, okay.
Neill Stanbury (13:11)
No comment.
So that's the SPD-SLR system. And look, I think I've mentioned this before on one of our previous podcasts or videos, Cam, but if there's anyone from Shimano head office watching this, can you please talk to the people in engineering?
What we really need in this world is different length spindles that you can remove from your Shimano SPD or SPD-SLR pedals and replace.
The bearings are pressed onto the shaft of the pedals, so you would have to sell the individual shaft with the bearings located on them.
But if you could have a minus three millimetre, a plus four millimetre, which they've already got, a plus eight, plus 12 and a plus 16.
You're covering most humans.
Suddenly Shimano becomes the most adjustable pedal system in the world off the factory floor.
If the shaft is quite easy to replace, it's just a locking nut on the end. You just pull it off, change the Q-factor to whatever you want.
Maybe even if you just only sold the shafts to bike fitters and shops, even if you didn't sell them to the bare public, that would be fine.
But at least it would give people the opportunity to adjust their own Q-factor significantly.
I've got, every week I have three to five clients that need significant Q-factor adjustment, typically going wider for bigger riders.
And we've banged on about this in other podcasts before.
But if you had that combined with this and a long slot and lots of adjustability, pretty good, lower stack height, slightly lighter. It's all good.
For the moment, I'm going to have to give this a moderate thumbs down, Cam.
Not a massive fan.
Cam Nicholls (15:05)
But if it wasn't for the fore-and-aft, it would be a thumbs up.
Neill Stanbury (15:05)
Yep.
Cam Nicholls (15:05)
Okay.
Neill Stanbury (15:05)
But you can't. They've thought this out.
And I've thought, I've been thinking about this for years, trying to figure out how you could improve on this.
There's no way without losing the adjustment because that bolt, that flange has to sit deeper into the cleat.
You're going to lose stack height and you're going to lose adjustability at the same time.
Cam Nicholls (15:05)
Yeah.
Neill Stanbury (15:05)
Okay. It is what it is, mate.
Cam Nicholls (15:07)
Well, thank you, Neil.
Neill Stanbury (15:07)
No worries.
Cam Nicholls (15:07)
Well, look, if somebody's at the end of this video and maybe now a bit concerned about their own cleat position and what to do, you've put together, or we've put together, a program called Bike Fit Fundamentals, where it walks people through what to do.
Neill Stanbury (15:07)
Yeah.
Cam Nicholls (15:07)
There's a lot of adjustment, a lot of information there about cleat positioning as well in one of the modules.
Neill Stanbury (15:07)
Yeah.
Cam Nicholls (15:07)
So we'll put a link to that below and we'll catch everyone in the next podcast.

Summary:
How much strength training do cyclists actually need, and could doing too much in the gym be interfering with your riding?
For recreational and amateur cyclists balancing training with work, family and limited time, strength training can easily become overcomplicated. Long gym sessions with multiple exercises, sets and repetitions may create unnecessary fatigue, making it harder to complete the cycling sessions that actually matter.
In this episode of the Road Cycling Academy Podcast, Cam Nicholls is joined by RCA head coach Ryan Thomas to discuss a simpler approach to strength training for cyclists and how a minimum effective dose can make gym work easier to maintain alongside riding.
Drawing on recommendations from RCA strength coach Dr Aaron Turner and the research discussed in his previous RCA content, Cam explains an approach based around accumulating approximately 16 to 30 lower-body repetitions at a sufficiently heavy load.
In practical terms, that could be as simple as two sets of five repetitions across two lower-body exercises, giving a cyclist 20 quality repetitions without turning the gym session into an hour-long workout.
Cam also shares his own experience of doing considerably more gym work, including squats, single-leg press and alternating lunges, only to find that the additional volume was creating fatigue that interfered with his cycling training.
As he moved from an off-season phase into preparation for Masters Nationals, he reduced his strength training to one maintenance session per week and simplified the workload. The result, he says, has been less soreness and fatigue while maintaining his strength.
Cam and Ryan also discuss where gym sessions can sit within a cycling week, including the option of placing strength work later on the same day as a hard ride so that easy days can remain genuinely easy.
The conversation isn't only about cycling performance. They also discuss resistance training and bone mineral density, and why cyclists may have reasons beyond power and durability to include some form of strength work in their routine.
In this episode:
Why cyclists often overcomplicate strength training
How much lower-body strength work cyclists may actually need
The 16 to 30 repetition range discussed by Cam
Why the working weight still needs to be sufficiently heavy
Two sets of five repetitions across two exercises
Why more gym volume can create unnecessary cycling fatigue
Delayed onset muscle soreness after strength training
Building strength in the off-season versus maintaining it during the season
Why Cam reduced his gym training to once per week
Maintaining strength with a lower training volume
How long a simple strength session can take
Why technical exercises should come earlier in a gym session
Rest periods between heavy strength sets
Combining gym work and hard cycling on the same day
Why Cam reduces the weight when lifting after a hard ride
How simplifying gym sessions can improve consistency
Balancing cycling, strength training, work and family
Why cyclists don't necessarily need a gym membership to do resistance training
Strength training and bone mineral density for cyclists
Why doing something can be better than abandoning strength work because the ideal session isn't practical
The practical takeaway is that strength training doesn't necessarily need to involve long, complicated gym sessions. For cyclists whose main priority is riding, Cam and Ryan's discussion points towards keeping the strength work focused, managing the fatigue it creates and finding an approach simple enough to perform consistently.
Road Cycling Academy helps recreational and amateur cyclists train smarter, improve their performance and get more from the limited training time they have available.
Weight Training for Cyclists
RCA's Strength Training for Cyclists program provides structured off-bike strength training specifically for road cyclists.
#CyclingTraining #StrengthTraining #StrengthTrainingForCyclists #WeightTraining #RoadCycling #CyclingPerformance #CyclingStrength #CyclingFitness #AmateurCycling #RoadCyclingAcademy
Transcript:
Cam Nicholls (00:02) Welcome to the RCA podcast, designed for recreational and amateur road cyclists with a focus on performance. We dive into cycling training, nutrition, strength training for cyclists and even bike fitting tips, all designed to help you train smarter, ride faster and hopefully tear your mates' legs off. So without further ado, let's dive into today's episode.
Welcome back to the RCA podcast, which is also on YouTube. Today I'm joined by the RCA's head coach, Ryan Thomas, and today we're going to talk about a simple approach to strength training, the gym, because I feel like, I mean, I don't coach anyone anymore, Ryan, you coach a lot of people, but just from speaking to people before they jump on board, that people overcomplicate the gym and, you know, it becomes all too difficult and then they don't do it and then they're missing out on the gains.
Would that be fair to say? What's your experiences?
Ryan Thomas (00:58) Yeah, I would agree. It's a conversation every time you talk to a new athlete. What are you doing in the gym?
And usually it's, I'm doing these 10 workouts, I'm trying to do this amount of time in there and this, and I just say, okay, just break it down, make it simple for me.
What are you doing? How many times a week are you going and what's your sets and reps and what's your main exercises?
Try to simplify it.
Cam Nicholls (01:21) Yeah, and I think people do overcomplicate it quite a lot. I've been guilty of this myself and once you start doing a bit too much, which I think is instinct for a lot of recreational and amateurs.
I've only recently finally listened to Aaron Turner, the RCA strength coach, and gone, watch that video again, which we'll link up there. We're going to reference today, and gone, actually, this is a game changer.
So essentially what we're talking about here, and this is based off the research, right? Rather than thinking about all these technical exercises you need to do and lots of sets and reps, the bare minimum dose, according to the research that you need to achieve, assuming you're already, you've done some gym before, right? You're conditioned.
You're not going to go in and just do this out of nowhere, right? You need some conditioning in the gym first. Let me just preface this.
All you need to achieve to obtain the 5% improvement in cycling, threshold, neuromuscular power, durability is the big one. You need to accumulate somewhere between 16 to 30 repetitions on your lower body, which is your legs, right? 16 to 30 reps.
With the slight caveat, it needs to be at a minimum of 80% of your one-repetition max, which in layman's terms means you need to work out how many reps you can do up to eight and you're failing at eight. That's your 80% of one-rep max.
Bit of a mouthful, that one.
You need to work that out, but you don't go to eight. You normally just go four to five. Let's just say for the purpose of this video, five.
So if you only need to achieve 16 to 30 repetitions on your lower body to achieve the strength gains or strength maintenance, to achieve bigger threshold, bigger neuromuscular power, more durability, in simple terms, that's two sets of five reps on one exercise and then two sets of five reps on another exercise.
Ryan Thomas (03:42) It's not much, is it?
Cam Nicholls (03:44) It's not.
And you've achieved 20. Now, you could do a little bit more. You could do a little bit less, but you're still getting in that minimum dose range to achieve outcomes.
Now, from when you speak to recreationals, are they doing their gym sessions like this?
Ryan Thomas (03:44) No, it's way more than that.
Cam Nicholls (03:44) Way more.
Ryan Thomas (03:44) Way more.
Cam Nicholls (03:44) Yeah. And the problem with doing way more is, yes, and this is according to research, you may get bigger gains, right?
But more means more fatigue, means more delayed onset muscle soreness, and typically means that there can be somewhere between one to three days post-gym exercise where you're carrying fatigue or you're affected by the gym session if you're doing too much.
Three days in a week, if you're doing intense training, two to three intense sessions a week.
Ryan Thomas (03:44) Yeah, two to three.
Cam Nicholls (03:44) It's going to impact your cycling. If cycling is your goal, it's going to impact your cycling.
I was doing this.
I was guilty of this, right? I was going to the gym twice a week up until recently because I was having a bit of an off-season, and that's typically the protocol, right?
During an off-season phase, you want to go to the gym twice a week to build strength, and then when you go into an on-season phase, so I'm now training for Masters Nationals, we go for one session per week, one gym session, which is a maintenance session.
And according to the research, we'll link to it below, you can maintain the same level of strength that you've developed in that off-season phase for up to 13 weeks by just going once per week.
But what was I stupidly doing? I was doing three sets of, I was doing squats, I was doing single-leg press, and I was doing alternating lunges, three sets of five on each.
So that's a lot of repetitions there, well and truly more than the 16 to 30.
And I've kept that going now. Well, I did, and what happened?
I was experiencing too much fatigue relative to what I needed to reserve for my cycling training, because now I've upped my training to two to three times per week.
So in the last couple of weeks, I went back and watched Aaron's video, and I'm now aiming for that rep range, normally around 20 reps.
And all it takes, unless you're accessorising with abs and some upper-body stuff, literally takes 20 to 25 minutes in the gym.
Ryan Thomas (06:30) Yeah, probably less.
Cam Nicholls (06:30) Probably less. Yeah.
I mean, one thing that you want to do is obviously a warm-up.
Ryan Thomas (06:30) Yeah.
Cam Nicholls (06:30) Yep. So five minutes on the spin bike.
The first, and there's something called the priority model in strength and conditioning, which means start with the most technical exercises first, because the longer you go, the more neurological fatigue that you get.
And if you finish off with deadlifts and, you know, your form's a little bit out...
Ryan Thomas (06:54) Bad news.
Cam Nicholls (06:54) Bad news.
So I don't do deadlifts anymore because of that.
So I'll start with squats.
You want to leave, for at least your priority exercises, three minutes between each set, which is a fair bit of time as well.
Aaron says you can bring it down to two minutes if you want to be practical, but for strength gains, you want to do about three minutes.
So jumping in, warm up on the bike, warm-up set. And then I do my two sets of five, and two sets of five.
Bit of ab work, out the door.
Ryan Thomas (07:42) Yeah. Easy.
Cam Nicholls (07:42) And guess what? I've been able to maintain that strength. I've been doing this for the last three weeks now.
So I'm not feeling like I'm losing any strength.
And the biggest thing here is I'm not getting sore.
Ryan Thomas (07:43) You're still able to go as hard on the group rides?
Cam Nicholls (07:46) Yep. I'm not getting the delayed onset muscle fatigue. I'm not feeling fatigued.
And the last time I did this, it was on a Saturday afternoon. I'd done the group ride.
And quite often they say, when you're in a high-intensity phase, actually stacking your gym on a day where you're doing an intense cycling session is good because you get all your intensity in one day.
And you can reserve the easy days for being easy.
Provided you give it a good five, six hours to enable the body to recuperate a little bit.
So I was just driving past the gym on a Saturday afternoon. I'd done three hours pretty hard.
And I was like, oh, the gym. Oh, it's only going to take me 20, 25 minutes.
So I just went in and did a session.
And it was quick. It was easy. I didn't experience the fatigue.
And the benefit of this is I will consistently do it every week now.
Whereas in the past I pushed it beyond that 30 reps. I probably got a little bit too heavy as well.
I'm not probably doing 80% of one-rep max. I'll probably do a little bit heavy.
So now I'm like, by the law, that's the weight. That's the repetition range.
And consistency is key, as you know, with anything in life.
Ryan Thomas (09:02) I'm interested to, if you were to let that fall for, let's say, you don't do it once a week, or you skip it for two or three weeks.
Is that a negative impact on the strength in the gym, or is it minimum once a week and then start losing it at a specific rate?
Cam Nicholls (09:21) Today's podcast is brought to you by the Road Cycling Academy's Weight Training for Cyclists program.
And if you're listening from the Northern Hemisphere, now is a very good time to start thinking about strength training as you head towards the winter months and begin building towards next season.
Because if you do strength training right, you're looking at about a 5% to 10% gain.
But the problem many recreational cyclists face is they know they should be lifting weights, but they're not sure what exercises to do, how heavy to lift, nor how to fit strength work around their cycling.
And that's exactly why we have created this program with Dr Aaron Turner, a strength and conditioning specialist with 20 years of experience working with athletes, including elite-level cyclists.
In our program, you'll get a beginner, intermediate and advanced strength program, all downloadable, backed by six detailed video tutorials, and then 60 individual exercise video demonstrations showing you exactly what to do and how to integrate it with your riding.
The goal is simple, more power, better durability and improved efficiency on the bike.
And you'll get lifetime access to this program for only $147 USD, backed by our money-back guarantee.
If you're keen, head to the Road Cycling Academy website and check out our Weight Training for Cyclists program.
Now let's get back to the podcast.
Anecdotally, if I don't go within 10 days, I'll need to back the weight off a bit next time I go. So that's typically what I do.
And to be fair, even on a day where I'm doing it on, and this is Aaron's recommendation, if you're doing gym on a day where you've done intensity in the morning, just back off the weights by 5%, 10%.
If I've missed gym by 10 days, I probably won't do it on an intense day. I'll probably just do it independently.
But once again, I'll back off the weight 5%, 10%.
And you can just, over the course of two or three weeks, ease yourself back into it because people will miss it.
But I think they're less inclined to miss it if they keep it this simple.
Ryan Thomas (11:29) Yes, agreed. Yeah.
Cam Nicholls (11:30) So I guess that's the rule or the idea of this video, is don't overcomplicate things.
If you want to understand and hear all the research aligned to this, which Aaron references, we'll link the video up here.
And yeah, it's been a game changer for me, Ryan.
So that's why I wanted to bring it into this video today, because I know a lot of people struggle with keeping gym into their routine.
One, because of time. A full hour, don't have it.
And two, because I'm already cooked from everything else I'm doing.
This, I believe, solves those two problems.
Ryan Thomas (12:06) Yeah. Yeah, I agree.
It's like working with people who are trying to balance work, cycling, families and trying to squeeze gym in.
It's like, they say, oh, not this time here and this time there.
And I'm trying to, like as a coach, I'm trying to think about, oh, what's the load outside of the riding and how's that all balanced?
And this makes it super easy.
It's super easy to balance that load because it's not actually adding that much load.
Cam Nicholls (12:33) It's not.
Ryan Thomas (12:34) It's very little load for your muscles.
And you're not, like most people you talk to who are gym-goers who have experience in the gym.
Well, most people have experience in the gym because they go in and they spend an hour or two there and they go in and they do four or five big workouts and they go on to failure.
And then they're like, well, I need to do that to keep it off and to keep my cycling. I need to do more and more and more.
Cam Nicholls (12:34) Yep.
Ryan Thomas (12:34) It's just not the case.
Less is more.
Cam Nicholls (12:34) Less is more.
Ryan Thomas (12:34) Less is more. Yeah.
We spoke about it in another podcast just before. Sometimes it can be the same with on the bike as well.
It's the quality. Consistency is a big piece of the puzzle.
Cam Nicholls (13:11) I think less is more leads to more consistency, which overall is where the gains are made.
And I think with this one as well, you're like, you don't need to, I have a gym membership, but you don't need a gym membership.
You can literally just buy a kettlebell, find two exercises to do and just implement this pretty...
Ryan Thomas (13:29) That's my routine.
Cam Nicholls (13:31) That's your routine.
And look, you know, Aaron makes a good point because as road cyclists, you know, there's a benefit gain from a performance perspective, but also if you're not doing any resistance training, there's a disadvantage from a bone mineral density perspective.
Like cycling is not good for bone density.
Weird. You'd be better off being a sedentary individual sitting on the couch watching Netflix.
So, you know, even not for the performance gains, you should be doing this.
And if it's not following the protocol that I've discussed here, just, which I think is what you do, you just move stuff around.
Ryan Thomas (14:04) I just do something.
Cam Nicholls (14:05) Yeah.
Ryan Thomas (14:06) General health. Like if you're just doing one sport, then you're not as healthy as you can be.
It comes down to that pretty much.
Cam Nicholls (14:15) Yeah.
Ryan Thomas (14:15) If you, yeah, you don't need to be scientifically, like that's the best way to do it, is to lift heavy things, but I don't have a gym membership.
I lift reasonably heavy things and I work my muscles hard, but I put the little fella on shoulders, that's 15 kilos.
But yeah, just move stuff around.
If it's that complicated and you can't make it to the gym, go downstairs, do some squats, push-ups, sit-ups, and that just activates that muscular system.
If you can't do what you've just said.
Cam Nicholls (14:46) Yeah, exactly.
You look a little bit better on the beach as well if you're doing some push-ups and sit-ups.
Ryan Thomas (14:51) I don't look good on a beach.
Cam Nicholls (14:52) Neither do I. We've both got moon tans.
Anyway. Yeah.
All right. Well, thanks for your time, Ryan.
Much appreciated. And we'll catch everyone in the next podcast.

Summary:
Do you know your best five-second, one-minute or five-minute power, or are you basing almost all of your cycling training around FTP?
For many recreational and amateur cyclists, FTP becomes the number used to set training zones and measure progress. But one number can't necessarily tell you where your strengths and weaknesses sit across everything from a short sprint to a sustained effort.
In this episode of the Road Cycling Academy Podcast, Cam Nicholls is joined by RCA head coach Ryan Thomas to discuss the cycling peak power curve and why Ryan considers it one of the first things worth examining when assessing a cyclist.
Using a power meter and platforms such as TrainingPeaks, cyclists can look at their best power across durations ranging from a few seconds through to longer sustained efforts. Ryan explains how those numbers help build a picture of the rider's physiology and why simply relying on an estimated FTP can sometimes lead to inappropriate training intensities.
A major issue is whether the data actually contains maximal efforts. A cyclist who mostly completes structured workouts in ERG mode, for example, may never have produced a genuine all-out five-second sprint, one-minute effort or five-minute effort. In that situation, a model trying to estimate fitness from existing ride data may be working with an incomplete power curve.
Cam and Ryan discuss how critical power testing can provide a more useful picture without requiring cyclists to test every individual duration. Ryan explains the RCA approach, including a 10-second sprint, a three-minute maximal effort and a longer 12-minute effort, and why shorter and longer efforts can be used to help model critical power.
They also discuss why two cyclists with a similar threshold may need very different VO2 training prescriptions. One rider may have considerably more capacity above threshold than another, meaning a standard workout based purely on a percentage of FTP may be too easy for one cyclist and unsustainable for another.
Ryan also introduces W prime as another useful, although not perfectly precise, way of thinking about a cyclist's capacity to repeatedly work above critical power.
In this episode:
What a cycling peak power curve actually shows
Why Ryan looks at the power curve when assessing a cyclist
Five-second, one-minute, five-minute and longer-duration power
Why FTP doesn't describe every aspect of cycling performance
Why you need a power meter to build a meaningful power curve
How racing and bunch rides can produce different power data from structured workouts
Why ERG mode may leave gaps in your peak power data
How to tell whether your existing power curve is representative
Why you don't need to test every point on the curve individually
How critical power testing works
RCA's 10-second sprint and three-minute maximal test
Why Ryan uses a longer 12-minute effort
When a five-minute maximal effort can provide additional information
Why estimated or modelled FTP can sometimes be misleading
How incorrect threshold settings affect your training zones
Why VO2 power can differ substantially between riders with similar thresholds
Why fixed percentages of FTP don't suit every cyclist
What W prime can tell you about work above critical power
How TrainingPeaks and Strava can help you examine your power data
Why tracking more than FTP can provide additional ways to measure progress
For recreational cyclists, the practical takeaway isn't that FTP has no value. It's that FTP is only part of the picture. Understanding how your power changes across different durations can help identify strengths and weaknesses, make training targets more appropriate and give you additional ways to recognise progress.
Road Cycling Academy helps recreational and amateur cyclists train smarter, improve their performance and get more from the limited training time they have available.
One-to-One Cycling Coaching
For cyclists who want ongoing, personalised guidance, RCA coaching can help interpret individual strengths and weaknesses and use that information to make training more specific to the rider.
#CyclingTraining #CyclingPower #PowerMeter #FTP #CriticalPower #VO2Max #TrainingPeaks #CyclingPerformance #RoadCycling #RoadCyclingAcademy
Transcript:
Cam Nicholls (00:02) Welcome to the RCA podcast, designed for recreational and amateur road cyclists with a focus on performance. We dive into cycling training, nutrition, strength training for cyclists and even bike fitting tips, all designed to help you train smarter, ride faster and hopefully tear your mates' legs off. So without further ado, let's dive into today's episode.
Welcome back to the RCA podcast, which is also on YouTube. Today I'm joined by the RCA's head coach, Ryan Thomas, and today we're going to be talking about, we believe, the most important graph for any cyclist, definitely more important than FTP.
And I think, well, you would know because you coach a lot of people, that not many people know what this is, or they don't spend a lot of time looking at it when it tells them a lot.
So much. If you're a rider wanting to be better, you should know this, shouldn't you?
Ryan Thomas (00:58) 100%. Yeah. The context, we onboard members all the time doing off-the-shelf programs.
And first thing I would go into is the TrainingPeaks dashboard. I'll go in and I'll look at the peak power chart and I'll say, oh yeah, looks good. Compare it to this year versus last year, and then go in and look at threshold and see if threshold's right.
Measure it, like see the zones. But the first thing is look at the peak power chart.
Cam Nicholls (01:21) Okay. So for those out there that don't know what a peak power chart is, I know we're going to go into a fair bit more detail here, but just at a high level, like what is it?
Ryan Thomas (01:30) It's essentially, you can choose the date range, but it's...
Cam Nicholls (01:30) You need a power meter.
Ryan Thomas (01:30) You need a power meter. And it's the, in TrainingPeaks, it's the peak powers that you have produced across their ranges.
So five seconds, 10 seconds, 12 seconds, 20 seconds. And it's not every, it's not very specific. It's like one minute, five minutes, six minutes, 10 minutes, 12 minutes, 20 minutes, 60 minutes.
It essentially plots a curve based on your...
Cam Nicholls (01:30) Does it go all the way out to two or three hours if you want?
Ryan Thomas (01:30) Yeah, it goes, yeah. That part of the curve is probably not as important.
It's more the under 60 minutes that's the critical one as it defines the physiology of the rider type.
But yeah, it's super important if you want to know, you will know what type of rider you are, but as a coach or someone looking into it, or you don't know what your peak five-minute power is, how do you do a five-minute effort, for example, or a 20-minute? You don't know what that number is.
A lot of people will know those two, five and 20, but what's your one-minute or your 30-second or three minutes, for example? It's very specific to what type of rider you are.
Cam Nicholls (02:34) So that's a good segue. Well, why bother understanding your numbers across those segments?
Essentially they...
If you're a recreational amateur, and you sit out there and you're watching this video and you're like, no, I'm not going to bother because it's too much hard work.
I've got to go do all these tests. I don't need to figure this out. What would you say to that person?
Ryan Thomas (02:57) I'd say you're not training the right areas if you don't know what your peak powers are across those curves.
It depends on what type of rider you are, whether you're a rider that trains or you're a rider that does bunch rides, racing, two very different people in terms of what that curve looks like.
A rider that just trains, let's say, I'll just pull a generic one out, someone who does AI programs or chooses a program online, and they just do specific workouts.
They're never going all out.
Cam Nicholls (03:27) Zwift workouts is a very popular one.
Ryan Thomas (03:29) Zwift workouts.
They just go on and choose a workout. It's in ERG mode, never going all out. You're not doing racing.
That power curve is not going to represent the rider type you are because you've never done a five-second sprint, or you've never done a one-minute, five-minute all-out effort.
Cam Nicholls (03:42) You might've done one 10 years ago.
Ryan Thomas (03:47) Or five years ago, but not racing.
It's not representative of the rider you are today.
Someone who's racing or doing bunch rides, they're going all out for certain durations, might have a better idea in that curve.
More often than not, people who are coming to the RCA, I'll look at the curve and I'm like, your threshold setting's 250, but the highest power you've ever done for 20 minutes is 200.
Why is your threshold at 250 watts? That's an example, even if you're doing one-minute efforts. What's your one-minute peak power?
I don't know. What do you do on these efforts?
Cam Nicholls (04:20) In order for somebody to understand their peak powers, if they haven't really done this before, and they want to go, I want to get a little bit more accurate with my training, and I want to understand what rider type that I am.
Am I actually, I think I'm better at VO2 than threshold, but I don't really test it.
Would you recommend that they spend a week going out and doing an all-out five-second, then a 10-second, and then a one-minute, and then a three-minute, and then just following the TrainingPeaks cycle?
Because I know some people might have this information. I mean, you would know better than me.
What percentage of people, recreationals, come to you and you look at their data, they've never done structured training before.
They're about to start. You look at their peak powers. You're like, okay, you've got a good picture there.
Ryan Thomas (05:03) One to 2%.
Cam Nicholls (05:05) Oh, okay. Very, very few.
Ryan Thomas (05:06) Very little. Very little.
Cam Nicholls (05:10) A lot of people... Do they then have an idea of what they think they're good at? They must.
Ryan Thomas (05:15) Yeah, they do.
Cam Nicholls (05:17) Okay. Is it normally accurate once you've actually figured it out?
Ryan Thomas (05:22) Yeah, to some extent. It depends on the type of rider. If they're a trainer or a racer, depends what type of their goals are with riding, essentially.
But yeah, you don't necessarily need to go out and pick every point along that curve and do a maximum effort.
There's testing we can do that plots that curve. That's the whole point of critical power testing, essentially, is we choose three, four, five parameters, two parameters, and it mimics that curve based on the two to three markers we put on that curve.
Cam Nicholls (05:56) Yeah. You only normally practically, because you think it's most practical for recreational and amateurs with critical power testing, which is essentially another way to get your threshold estimate.
We throw FTP, as you said, throw it in the bin.
We're now going to look at critical power. So critical power gives us that threshold estimate, but it also gives us a rough idea of this power curve.
From your experiences, three is probably what they say online, but you say you can get away with just doing two tests across two days, and that'll give you a pretty good feel for your power graph without having to go do all the tests.
So why do you say just the two and what are the two tests?
Ryan Thomas (06:37) The two tests, the first test has two maximum efforts in it, but it's not used within the critical power model.
So the first test that we do in the RCA is a 10-second sprint and a three-minute maximum effort in one session with a long recovery in there.
The 10-second sprint gives us your five-second peak power.
That'll tell us your peak neuromuscular capacity. If you've got a lower threshold, where does that sit and how does that curve look? It's essentially how steep is the top end of that curve versus if it's a four.
Three-minute is your anaerobic VO2 estimate in between, and then the other test on the next day, we would do a 12-minute effort.
Okay. We have a critical power testing week, RCA testing week that I use, and I have a five-minute in there as well.
But my experience, the five-minute peak power within the critical power, if we have a three and a 12, that five-minute power, it changes the middle.
So if we think about what's happening at the other two ends, it only moves it up a tiny bit. It's like plus or minus five watts to the five-minute.
So if you're motivated to do three, then yeah, do the third. If you're not, then I don't think it makes massive.
Cam Nicholls (07:50) Yeah. Okay. And you were saying as well, last time we spoke about this, it doesn't have to be exactly three minutes.
So if somebody has got a segment, which is like a climb and it's going to take them two minutes, 45.
And if someone's got a longer climb, but it's not 12, it's eight minutes, 43. That's fine.
You can use this and we'll link to a calculator below where you put in the timestamp and then you put in the wattage and then it will calculate your critical power.
Ryan Thomas (08:16) Yeah. So there's general parameters, like the people who created this, the critical power and critical speed, it's been around for a long time, but there's general parameters around if you're just using two, what sort of durations you want.
And we use three minutes because it works well.
Three and 12 minutes was the first ones that they came up with.
Cam Nicholls (08:36) Oh, okay.
Ryan Thomas (08:37) Just align really well with how that curve sits.
But I would recommend anywhere from two to four minutes for the shorter effort and anywhere above 10.
Getting below 10 minutes starts to mess it up a little bit, I would say, because it's not quite long enough to see what's happening there.
I'd say over 10 minutes, 10 to 20.
Cam Nicholls (08:58) Today's podcast is brought to you by the Road Cycling Academy's Weight Training for Cyclists program.
And if you're listening from the Northern Hemisphere, now is a very good time to start thinking about strength training as you head towards the winter months and begin building towards next season.
Because if you do strength training right, you're looking at about a five to 10% gain.
But the problem many recreational cyclists face is they know they should be lifting weights, but they're not sure what exercises to do, how heavy to lift, nor how to fit strength work around their cycling.
And that's exactly why we have created this program with Dr. Aaron Turner, a strength and conditioning specialist with 20 years of experience working with athletes, including elite-level cyclists.
In our program, you'll get a beginner, intermediate and advanced strength program, all downloadable, backed by six detailed video tutorials, and then 60 individual exercise video demonstrations, showing you exactly what to do and how to integrate it with your riding.
The goal is simple, more power, better durability and improved efficiency on the bike.
And you'll get lifetime access to this program for only $147 USD, backed by our money-back guarantee.
If you're keen, head to the Road Cycling Academy website and check out our Weight Training for Cyclists program.
Now let's get back to the podcast.
Okay. So once you work with recreational amateurs, they haven't done this before, they do the tests and then maybe they're, you know, a few months in and they might be doing some other power numbers.
So they're getting a better feel for what their graph looks like, their power curve graph. What is it? Are they interested in it?
Is it changing the way that they see things?
Obviously it changes the way that you coach them because you can train more accurately to the zones and you can get a better feel for how they're improving over time relative to not just FTP, but all these other numbers.
Ryan Thomas (11:03) Yes.
Cam Nicholls (11:03) So that's great that you can see that, but what's most, what's of most interest to them?
Ryan Thomas (11:03) I think it gives, like you just said, it gives them another parameter to improve on.
So a lot of people, a lot of people will come and they'll know their threshold number, whether it's accurate or not, they'll know a rough threshold number.
But if you ask them, what's your best one-minute power, they'll have no idea.
And if we say, well, let's test it, let's try and improve it. Oh, cool. Like it's something, it's motivation.
It's something extra to test and track and follow.
And even if it's on TrainingPeaks, they go and do a bunch ride and there's a, in TrainingPeaks, you'll get notified if you get an all-time best or a 2026 best across that curve, but you only get notified for specific durations.
But as a coach, I can go in and look at that peak power curve and I can say, oh, that was, you don't get notified on your 12-minute best, but I'm letting you know that this was your 12-minute best effort for 2026, or this was your best two-minute for 2026.
Oh, that's awesome. I didn't know that. I'm going to look at that more often.
So making them aware of it gives them motivation to track those.
Cam Nicholls (12:05) Tangible improvements that they can now actually understand.
Ryan Thomas (12:08) Yeah. And if you're not looking at it or you're not just looking at the notifications that whatever platform you're using sends you, you may not be getting the whole picture.
So as a coach, I see that because I say, awesome, well done.
That was your best three-minute or two-minute, which isn't a notification in any system.
That's your best two-minute power for the last six months or last year or last two years.
And they're like, oh, what really? That's awesome.
Cam Nicholls (12:33) Yep. Okay. And then just to round out in terms of the training side of things, you say that people get more accurate with their zones, but most people out there will either have an estimated FTP from an app, AI tool, whatever it might be, or they might've done an FTP test.
They've done a 20-minute test. Okay. This now enables them to get more accurate with their training.
Why is that?
Ryan Thomas (12:58) Because your zones are set correctly.
I have a big gripe with AI-detected threshold zones because I mentioned in the start of this, it assumes that the efforts that you've done are maximal.
And if they're not maximal, then they're very incorrect.
So an example for myself at the moment, so even TrainingPeaks has this in their new Analyze360.
If you've got premium, you go into the power and it'll predict what your modelled FTP is.
If you haven't done any maximum efforts across any of the power curve, it's going to spit you out a threshold number based on the maximum efforts that you've done or the peak powers that it reads.
At the moment, it's telling me my threshold is 290 watts and it's 40, 50 watts off what I know my threshold is.
It's because I haven't done any maximal efforts. I've just been riding easy.
I've been doing some threshold efforts, a couple of Zone 2, but if you're coming into training and you're doing training based off this modelled power, you might be 10% lower on your threshold.
You're not training any zone accurately.
So you're just not training hard enough, essentially.
Or you're training too hard. It's two parts of the picture there.
So coming in, doing proper testing, critical power testing, the 20-minute test is good and it'll give you a good threshold number to base your zones off, but critical power gives us more data to go off.
But if you come in and you set that threshold zone properly, you're going to be training properly.
You're going to be training hard enough to get a stimulus in the areas that we're trying to get it out of.
Cam Nicholls (14:30) Yeah. One of the examples that I like in this space is, you know, I speak to a lot of people on a Performance Breakthrough Call and they haven't done this process before.
So they're kind of assuming, and often they're correct, that I really struggle with the sustained efforts, the 20-minute FTP efforts.
But then when I do my VO2, it feels too easy. Like I'm getting through it too easy.
And it's like, well, maybe your VO2, if you've done the proper testing, could actually be higher because you're more genetically gifted for whatever reason at VO2, but therefore it should be higher.
So I think that's a great example.
I know there's a lot of people out there that experience that. My VO2 is a lot better than my threshold.
And so when I do VO2 efforts, I train harder than what my FTP calculator suggests.
Ryan Thomas (15:21) Exactly. Yeah.
And if you're training based on a percentage of threshold, percentage of critical power for VO2 stuff, it can be wrong.
Someone did yesterday, for example, I got an email from a Mileage Club member and he just did a five-minute maximum effort.
He did an RCA testing week because he hadn't done one for a while.
He did his five-minute peak power and his percentage, his five-minute peak power was 114% of his critical power, which is quite low.
So going through a program, if he's got four- to five-minute efforts set at 120% threshold, he's going to go out with that and he's going to fail pretty hard because it's not appropriate.
Cam Nicholls (16:00) Yeah. And probably then probably won't do it.
And the consistency comes into play and it's just a domino.
Ryan Thomas (16:04) Yeah. So the W prime number is another one that comes into important factor here with the critical power testing.
It gives us an idea of how big that battery is, how big your anaerobic or glycolytic energy system is, how many times can you dip above critical power and sustain it and go harder and harder and harder.
So 30/15s are a good example.
I imagine that someone like yourself has got a good high VO2 capacity or someone who's got a big W prime number, they can go much harder in those 30/15s than someone who's got a lower peak five-minute power relative to their critical power.
They might only be doing it 110%, where you could probably do 130%.
So very different.
And that's where RPE, maximal efforts, knowing what those peak powers are, what that W prime is.
W prime isn't 100% accurate, but it gives us an idea on how big that tank is and we can track it and we can see what's actually happening.
Cam Nicholls (16:59) Yeah.
Ryan Thomas (17:00) Yeah. As a coach, the data isn't always 100% accurate.
It gives us really good guidelines on where we go and how we track what's happening, what sort of prescriptions we set for maximal efforts and VO2 efforts and threshold efforts and what's actually appropriate for that rider.
Because one size fits all isn't always the best.
Cam Nicholls (17:20) It goes well and truly beyond estimated FTP, essentially what you're saying there.
So if people are out there listening, they're like, yeah, I wouldn't mind, you know, looking at my peak power graph, at least as a first step.
Would they be best to jump onto TrainingPeaks for this?
Ryan Thomas (17:35) Yes.
Cam Nicholls (17:35) And just import some historical data?
Ryan Thomas (17:37) Yeah. You can look at it on Strava. You can see that on Strava.
Cam Nicholls (17:40) Okay.
Ryan Thomas (17:40) And look at it and have a think, like, have a look at the curve and say, well, this looks pretty flat actually.
Maybe I haven't done a five-second sprint.
Or think about, no, I've never done a five-second sprint on fresh legs or a 10-second sprint on fresh legs.
So maybe that curve isn't accurate.
Maybe I need to go and do that or I need to retest that and see what's happening.
Cam Nicholls (17:59) Get to know yourself a little bit better.
Ryan Thomas (18:00) Yeah. And more often than not, honestly, the first thing that people are going to think is actually no, I've never done a sprint on fresh legs.
I don't actually know what my peak power is.
I've never done a sprint.
More often than not, that's the area that people don't know.
Interesting.
All right. Well, thanks very much for your time, Ryan.
No worries.
Cam Nicholls (18:21) A lot of meat on the bone there for people to digest. And we'll catch everyone in the next podcast.

Summary:
Why can you keep doing the same group ride every week and still get dropped in exactly the same place?
For recreational and amateur cyclists, simply doing more group rides can improve fitness and experience, but it may not address the specific weakness that's causing you to lose the wheel when the pace suddenly increases.
In this episode of the Road Cycling Academy Podcast, Cam Nicholls is joined by RCA head coach Ryan Thomas to discuss training specificity and what amateur cyclists can learn from research examining how professional riders train for the different demands they face during stages of the Vuelta.
The research looked at power distribution across sprinters, all-rounders and climbers on flat, semi-mountainous and mountainous stages. While the findings may not sound revolutionary, Ryan explains why they reinforce an important training principle: professional cyclists prepare for the specific demands they'll face in competition rather than relying on racing alone to make them better.
Cam and Ryan bring that principle back to a much more familiar goal for amateur cyclists: keeping up with the local bunch ride.
If you're repeatedly getting dropped when the group accelerates, simply returning to the same ride every week may not provide enough targeted training to improve the energy systems that are limiting you. Instead, Ryan explains why identifying where you're getting dropped and training that specific weakness can be more effective.
They use RCA member Belle as a real-world example. After previously being dropped repeatedly on the local Boreen Point bunch ride, Belle became more consistent with her training and incorporated dedicated Zone 2 riding alongside specific sprint, anaerobic and VO2 work.
Ryan explains that her five-second and one-minute power improved substantially, while Cam describes seeing the difference firsthand when Belle returned to the same group ride and was able to stay with the bunch and contribute turns.
They also break down one of the sprint sessions used in her training: six seconds all-out, two minutes recovery, another six seconds all-out, two minutes recovery, then a 12-second sprint, repeated for two to three sets.
The purpose isn't simply to sprint harder once. It's to develop maximum power and the ability to repeat those short, hard efforts that often determine whether you stay with the group when the pace changes.
In this episode:
What professional cycling research from the Vuelta tells us about training specificity
How sprinters, climbers and GC riders face different demands during a race
Why professional cyclists train specifically for their role
Why doing more group rides isn't always enough to stop getting dropped
How to identify the point in a bunch ride where your fitness is limiting you
Why short, hard accelerations often decide whether you stay with the group
The importance of five-second and one-minute power for group riding
How Belle changed her training after repeatedly getting dropped
Why consistent Zone 2 training still matters
How sprint, anaerobic and VO2 work can complement group riding
A six-second and 12-second repeatability sprint session
Why sprint sessions should still be treated as intensity training
How different rider types respond differently to sprint work
Why specific training doesn't mean you need to stop doing your favourite group ride
The practical takeaway is to look beyond simply doing more of the activity you're trying to improve. If you're consistently getting dropped at the same point in a group ride, identify what happens at that moment and train the specific demands involved. For many riders, that could mean adding targeted sprint, anaerobic or VO2 work around their existing riding rather than simply adding another bunch ride.
Road Cycling Academy helps recreational and amateur cyclists train smarter, improve their performance and get more from the limited training time they have available.
Research: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC13179141/ 
Weight Training for Cyclists
#CyclingTraining #RoadCycling #GroupRides #CyclingPerformance #SprintTraining #VO2Max #CyclingWorkouts #AmateurCycling #CyclingFitness #RoadCyclingAcademy
Transcript:
Cam Nicholls (00:02) Welcome to the RCA podcast, designed for recreational and amateur road cyclists with a focus on performance. We dive into cycling training, nutrition, strength training for cyclists and even bike fitting tips, all designed to help you train smarter, ride faster and hopefully tear your mates' legs off. So without further ado, let's dive into today's episode.
Welcome back to the RCA podcast, which is also on YouTube. Today I'm joined by the RCA's head coach, Ryan Thomas. And today we're going to be talking about some 2026 research that was published about how the, not Tour de France cyclists, but Vuelta professional cyclists train.
And I sent this to Ryan and his initial thoughts were, I'm not sure this is going to blow anyone's mind. But I said, no, I think, Ryan, it actually reinforces something that we all know, but I think a lot of recreational and amateurs neglect a lot. And I've got some evidence through the comment section of YouTube to show everyone.
And then an example of an RCA member who's recently demonstrated, like, how this type of training can really benefit the general recreational and amateur. So can you tell us a little bit about the research?
Ryan Thomas (01:20) Yeah. So essentially they looked at professional riders. They looked at the distribution of power and intensity factor and average power across particular stages in the Vuelta, in the Tour of Spain, across rider type.
So they looked at sprinters, all-round riders and climbers, and they looked at three different terrains. So flat, semi-mountainous and full mountainous stages. And they looked at what type, what rider type, how their power distribution was across each different stage.
So essentially, if you're a mountain climber, you spend more time in the higher powers in the mountain stages. If you're a flat rider or a sprinter, then you spend a lot of time in those lower zones and then you'll spend a little time in those higher zones.
So yeah, it's like, we all know that as a flat stage, it's going to be pretty easy for the climbers and then it's going to be really hard for the sprinters, and vice versa.
For the climbing stages or the mountain stages, the GC riders or the climbers are going to spend a lot of time in that higher threshold, VO2 zone. And the sprinters in those types of stages are going to be in the lower-intensity, moderate-intensity zones.
Cam Nicholls (02:31) Yeah. And if you're, like, I like how deep it went in terms of, like, if you're a domestique climber and you're there to support a GC rider, how does the stage look for you? Because you're not grinding threshold for four hours, are you?
No. You're probably really aggressive out of the gate on the climb to pace and protect your GC rider. So it really went into the specifics of, you know, not just about the rider type, but what they expect to receive, or expect, on any given stage.
Ryan Thomas (03:04) Yeah. And it helps them be able to train, right? Like, as a domestique, you know that I'd have to follow the breakaway for the first hour.
So I need to be able to do accelerations. Then I'll settle down if I'm in the breakaway or if I'm in the group. And then my role is to get that rider, the GC rider, to the bottom of that climb through five minutes, as hard as you can, and then see you later.
Cam Nicholls (03:21) See you later.
Ryan Thomas (03:22) Pull the agenda.
Cam Nicholls (03:22) In Zone 1. Yeah.
Ryan Thomas (03:23) Zone 1 for the rest. Whereas GC rider, sit back, Zone 2, a couple of accelerations following breakaways, the surges in the group. But your main role is halfway, beyond halfway through the stage, whereas the first half of the stage is easy.
So as a GC rider, you probably don't need to train that as much as what a breakaway specialist would. You go all out at the start, and then you need to be able to go all out at the end. So quite a different type of situation.
Cam Nicholls (03:49) Yeah. So the pros obviously analyse this information and then they train accordingly. So what is this specifically, maybe I've, pardon the pun, what is this specifically called?
Ryan Thomas (04:01) Yeah. Specificity.
Cam Nicholls (04:03) Yeah, exactly. Which is not anything new. So I think it's actually been around for a very long time.
But when I sent you this paper and I said, we should do a YouTube video on it, and you're like, oh, it's kind of like just validating or reinforcing something that we all know in the coaching circles. But I don't think many recreational and amateurs pay a lot of attention to it.
Especially, and the example I'm going to use here is what a lot of amateur and recreationals want to achieve. They want to beat their mates in the local group ride, or they want to hang on to the local group ride, or they want to get from the B group to the A group or something along those group ride lines. There's always some type of goal.
But then what do a lot of people end up doing?
Ryan Thomas (04:47) Just more of that.
Cam Nicholls (04:49) Just more group riding. In fact, there was a video we made recently about how you can actually improve your group riding through a specific workout. And we'll link to that at the top of the screen here.
And one of the comments was like, just do more group riding. And there was a lot of people that liked that comment, which suggests to me that perhaps there's some naivety out there about, okay, if you're wanting to get good at something specific, like a local group ride, which is the example we're going to use, we shouldn't just be doing group rides. Why is that, Ryan?
Ryan Thomas (05:23) Yeah, well, the example that I like to say is if I want to have a 400-watt threshold, I don't just go out and ride at 400 watts for as long as I can every day until I get there, because it's not going to get you there. Well, I'm just fatiguing you for no reason.
It's just not really specific in terms of what that bunch ride, in this scenario, what physiology are you hitting? What do you actually need to improve?
Because bunch rides are so variable in terms of intensity. If we're just going doing more bunch rides, we're hitting energy systems a little bit here and there, but never hitting one to improve it significantly enough to see a change.
Cam Nicholls (06:03) And you're probably not overextending yourself because when you get dropped in that specific part of the group ride and you keep getting dropped there, that's normally where you finish.
Ryan Thomas (06:12) Usually it's early in a group ride, right? So if it's a 45-minute hard part of the group ride and you get dropped 10 minutes in, 10 minutes of anything isn't really enough to move the needle. You're not really training that hard in that scenario.
So if you're getting further and further in a group ride, yes, there's progression there, but it's still not specific.
Yes, group rides are specific to group rides, but specific training for group riding is going to make you better at group rides or racing or whatever it is. The same as the professional riders. Professional racers don't just ride easy and then just go out and do races and get better.
Cam Nicholls (06:52) Racing does make you better, makes you stronger. And so does doing more bunch rides make you better. But as we talked about earlier, the pros train around their racing, which is very specific to the outcome they're trying to achieve.
So when they do get to the race, they're better prepared for it.
Ryan Thomas (07:07) Exactly.
Cam Nicholls (07:08) Yeah.
Ryan Thomas (07:08) And they're working strengths and weaknesses, like the weaknesses of the specific riders.
That's a big thing that, in a bunch ride, we need to figure out: where are you getting dropped? What do we need to improve?
It's not just go out and do more of those bunch rides to keep making yourself feel bad.
Cam Nicholls (07:23) Okay. So someone's listening to this and, maybe I should get a bit more specific so I can tackle my local group ride with a little bit more confidence, better training in the legs, better conditioning. What should they be thinking about?
And I think I'll preface this by saying you don't necessarily need to stop the ride. And it may not be a group ride. It could just be some people love going to their favourite Strava segment, or it could be a loop.
And I want to average 25 miles around this loop. That's my goal, right?
And you can still go do that. You can still go to the group ride, but it's what you do surrounding that which can better support you.
So the example that I wanted to bring in here is Belle, RCA member.
I know you've done a bit of research here on what training that she's done, but she came to us wanting to improve her racing, but she also loved local group riding. And she lives in my area in Noosa.
We've got a bunch ride called Boreen Point on Thursdays. And she had been dropped every single time she tried to get around that ride.
And, of course, like any bunch ride, it's not a climb, but it's a bit of a rise where everyone attacks with about maybe 15, 20 minutes to go. So there's a bit of fatigue in the legs.
There's a rise, everyone kicks. And that's where she was getting dropped repeatedly.
She signed up with the RCA about two months ago, working with Cav.
And then I went on the same Boreen Point group ride last week and she was there. And not only did she make it through, but she was actually ripping a few turns.
And I've got some footage because she's using the Insta360, which we'll overlay.
So I thought this is a really good example of what we talked about. She's got specific to her goals, which is racing, but also group riding.
Yeah. So you've dug into the training data and you can give us an example of kind of what she's done that's helped her take that next step with her group riding.
Ryan Thomas (09:15) Yeah. So it's actually quite interesting. I even spoke to Cav before we did this and I was like, what did you do differently?
Like, because she was a bit of content. Like, I can, I went back through and looked at her time in zones for power and heart rate for up until the 10 weeks before she started with the RCA, and then the 10 weeks since she's been with the RCA.
Okay. And the difference is quite dramatic in terms of the before and after. And we can overlay that here too, if you want.
Cam Nicholls (09:42) Any call-outs specifically?
Ryan Thomas (09:45) The overall volume dropped a bit. So she was training quite a lot before, but it was inconsistent.
So had some big weeks up around 20 hours and then some really small weeks up around five hours. And, yeah, it varied quite a lot before.
Now she's spent a good 10 weeks where, up over that 10 hours...
Cam Nicholls (10:07) Okay.
Ryan Thomas (10:08) Every week on week. Strategic easy weeks in there, but it's like, it's very obvious. You can see it. It's specific.
Cam Nicholls (10:15) Yep. Okay. That's quite good for, because for a bit of context, she's also, she's got a child, you know, she's a mum, she's got a full-time job.
So she's got, like, you know, a lot of the logistical considerations most recreational and amateurs have.
So it's interesting that she's been able to get consistent with it, perhaps because it's laid out in front of her.
Ryan Thomas (10:33) A hundred percent. Yeah. And that's the benefit of having a coach and a bit of a plug for the RCA there.
Cam Nicholls (10:39) Yeah. Okay.
Ryan Thomas (10:41) Yeah. But, like, time in zones as well, like a lot more specific in terms of heart rate in Zone 2.
So not just noodling around. So there's a bit of that, but I think the main thing here in terms of specificity for Belle was the inclusion of proper hard work.
So sprints was one thing that has been in there almost every week for a while now.
Cam Nicholls (11:02) And going back on her data, she wasn't doing sprints previously?
Ryan Thomas (11:05) No, not really. Not specific sprints. Like, she was probably throwing in some accelerations here and there.
Cam Nicholls (11:10) To try and hang on to the Boreen Point Thursday group ride?
Ryan Thomas (11:12) Yeah. But yesterday she did a five-second best power three-quarters of the way through a group ride, in that group ride. So five-second best under fatigued legs.
So big progression there.
And I can, we can overlay something else here. It's an interesting chart in TrainingPeaks where it shows your four-week peak powers across 365 days.
So you can track it and see the progression in five-second and one-minute power has been a big difference. The five-, 20- and 60-minute hasn't changed much in the last 365 days, but the five-second or one-minute, dramatic.
Cam Nicholls (11:48) Today's podcast is brought to you by the Road Cycling Academy's Weight Training for Cyclists program.
And if you're listening from the Northern Hemisphere, now is a very good time to start thinking about strength training as you head towards the winter months and begin building towards next season. Because if you do strength training right, you're looking at about a five to 10% gain.
But the problem many recreational cyclists face is they know they should be lifting weights, but they're not sure what exercises to do, how heavy to lift, nor how to fit strength work around their cycling.
And that's exactly why we have created this program with Dr. Aaron Turner, a strength and conditioning specialist with 20 years of experience working with athletes, including elite-level cyclists.
In our program, you'll get a beginner, intermediate and advanced strength program, all downloadable, backed by six detailed video tutorials, and then 60 individual exercise video demonstrations showing you exactly what to do and how to integrate it with your riding.
The goal is simple: more power, better durability and improved efficiency on the bike.
And you'll get lifetime access to this program for only $147 USD, backed by our money-back guarantee.
If you're keen, head to the Road Cycling Academy website and check out our Weight Training for Cyclists program.
Now let's get back to the podcast.
Okay.
Ryan Thomas (13:17) Across that year.
Cam Nicholls (13:18) And that's often group riding where you get dropped.
Ryan Thomas (13:20) That's the difference.
Cam Nicholls (13:22) The short, sharp efforts.
Ryan Thomas (13:23) Yeah. I think that's the specificity that a lot of people who would, if you're listening, why, if you're getting dropped in the group ride, like, majority of the time, it's when you're going all out.
You're never getting dropped in Zone 3 or Zone 4, like a lot of that...
Cam Nicholls (13:36) Or controlled rolling turns.
Ryan Thomas (13:37) Controlled rolling turns. You're not really getting dropped there.
It's when they drop the hammer and you go in Zone 6, 7, you go on and you're on your limit. And that's where the difference is.
So that hard VO2 sprint work was the big thing that Cav said he started implementing. Proper sprint work, proper anaerobic and VO2 work.
He was also doing fatigued efforts. So doing some sprints or some VO2s and then doing some tempo. So throwing a bit of mixed variable work in there, which is similar to what we do in the Beat Your Mates workout that you mentioned before.
But, yeah, the big difference is a sprint.
Cam Nicholls (14:10) And a sprint and anaerobic. And anaerobic's like your one minute.
Ryan Thomas (14:13) Yeah. 30-second to 90-second efforts.
Cam Nicholls (14:16) Yeah. So can you just give us an example of what the sprint session looks like and what the anaerobic session looks like?
If somebody's out there listening, oh, okay, maybe I should incorporate some of this.
Because I think a lot of people think that they're doing it. I do sprints. I do a sprint in the bunch ride, or I get to the end of my Zone 2 ride and I do a sprint.
But it's not a targeted one-hour session, which is dedicated to sprint and recovery.
Ryan Thomas (14:40) Yeah.
Cam Nicholls (14:41) So what does the session look like?
Ryan Thomas (14:43) So the session that Cav really likes, and I use this one now too...
Cam Nicholls (14:47) You got me to do it before my best-ever result.
Ryan Thomas (14:51) It's a really good sprint session. It's a really good anaerobic and VO2. So it kind of hits all of them, but it's pure sprint work.
It's a six-second sprint, two-minute recovery, six-second sprint, two-minute recovery and a 12-second sprint.
So that's one set, and you do two to three sets of that.
And the important part is you go as hard as you can for six seconds and you go, drop it right down, recover, Zone 1, repeat.
And it's just that all-out motor unit recruitment. And that has a really positive effect on your maximum power output and repeatability.
So this isn't just going and doing, like, another sprint session you can do is go and do a 10- to 20-second sprint and then have five to 10 minutes' recovery. Like, that's a different sprint.
This is kind of repeatability sprint. That's really good for bunch riding, racing, because you're doing 12 sprints, nine to 12 sprints throughout this workout.
And within a bunch ride, you might do 20 sprints, but this is getting really good peak power as well as repeatability.
Cam Nicholls (15:55) And interestingly, it's not a very challenging workout to get through.
It's not like you're doing, like, 30/15s, three sets of nine. That'll hurt you. Or the Beat Your Mates workout we did the other day, those one-minute efforts at the end, they hurt.
Even the fast-start VO2s hurt.
Like, to sprint for six seconds, I can feel it, but it's not like you're not in a hole. You're not dripping with sweat.
And the 12 seconds is a little bit fatiguing, but it's not really, you know, anything in terms of difficulty or rate of perceived exertion in comparison to your harder sessions.
So to implement it, it's pretty, it's not very daunting for people. But you should treat it as an intensity session, shouldn't you, if you're doing it?
Ryan Thomas (16:37) A hundred percent. Yeah.
And it's probably, although for yourself, like, your experience with these is probably different to someone who's a sprinter.
Um, so... What am I trying to say? You can't sprint out of sight in a dark night.
Cam Nicholls (16:58) Yeah, that's true.
Ryan Thomas (16:59) No, but as an aerobic, you're an aerobic athlete. So being able to sprint, you can't go deep enough that it's going to fatigue you.
Whereas an anaerobic or a neuromuscular athlete, for example, if someone's got a really high peak power compared to their...
Cam Nicholls (17:05) That'll fatigue them a lot more.
Ryan Thomas (17:06) It'll fatigue them a lot more because their tank's a lot bigger. They can go a lot deeper.
So it's very different for different types of athletes, which is the importance of, like, knowing what type of rider you are and how much it's going to fatigue you, because it will impact other riders differently.
But, yeah, you should, you need to go into it rested, prepared to go all out and to recover after.
It's not something just throw in, do another hard session, stay.
Cam Nicholls (17:32) Yeah. Okay.
So going back to, you know, the specificity element, to Belle as the example, leveraging, you know, the study on the pros, is she became more consistent with her training.
Ryan Thomas (within 17:32-18:01) Yep.
Cam Nicholls (within 17:32-18:01) She did more consistent time in Zone 2. So dedicated Zone 2 rides versus you're sporadic.
You think you're doing Zone 2, but it's actually, it's not.
And then dedicated sprint and anaerobic work.
Ryan Thomas (within 17:32-18:01) Yes.
Cam Nicholls (17:57) Which has given her a huge lift in two months' time.
Ryan Thomas (18:01) Yeah. Huge. Yeah.
So five-second peak power is, I think she's, like, easily a hundred watts onto the five-second peak.
Cam Nicholls (18:10) Wow.
Ryan Thomas (18:10) Which is a lot. And the repeatability, like, we can't, we could measure, I could go back in and look at specific sessions, but I would argue that her repeatability after eight to 10 sprints, it's probably the same, pretty close to the same peak power.
Whereas the first sprint session she would have done, it would have dropped off a lot.
Yeah. That repeatability peak is a lot higher.
Cam Nicholls (18:28) Yeah. Well, she actually put the video on social media at the end of the group ride. And I was like, firstly, I was quite impressed that she synced her watts accurately with the video because it's actually, that's difficult to do.
But she was doing 500 watts. And I'll overlay this, out in the wind, she wasn't even holding the wheel properly at the end of the ride. 64 kilos.
Yeah. Impressive.
So obviously there's some genetic, you know, gift there. You know, she's very fit and got a lot of potential.
But it's just interesting to see that rapid improvement in two months' time from constantly going back and doing the same group ride for months on end and getting dropped, and then within two months looking like a different rider.
And this is what people can do out there that aren't, you know, if you're just doing the same old, same old, you know, take one of these examples.
Probably the sprint example is your best one if you're struggling on bunch rides because, as you said, it's typically in a bunch ride when somebody accelerates where they get dropped.
So this would be good work for them.
And perhaps we can drop a link in the description to the workout, to Cav's workout. We'll have to ask him first, but I think he'll be fine if people want to implement it themselves.
So, yeah, that was good.
Thanks very much for your time, Ryan. Much appreciated. And we'll catch everyone in the next podcast.