The Problem with Zwift Cycling Plans
Summary In this episode, the conversation revolves around the effectiveness of Zwift and other off-the-shelf cycling programs, exploring their benefits and limitations. The discussion highlights the common issue of athlete plateaus and features a case study of a member named Joshua, who transitioned from a Zwift program to personalized coaching. The importance of critical power testing and structured training is emphasized, along with insights into preparing for competitive racing. The episode concludes with key takeaways for listeners looking to improve their cycling performance. Takeaways Zwift programs are engaging but may lead to plateaus. High intensity workouts can cause quick fatigue. Athletes often don't know their true training needs. Improving FTP alone doesn't guarantee racing success. Critical power testing provides more insights than FTP. Structured coaching can help overcome training plateaus. Recovery weeks are essential for performance improvement. Individualized training plans are more effective. Learning bike handling skills is crucial for racing. Coaching support can enhance overall cycling experience. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Zwift and Off-the-Shelf Plans 03:04 The Pros and Cons of Zwift Programs 05:43 Understanding Athlete Plateaus 08:45 Case Study: Joshua's Journey with Coaching 11:51 The Importance of Critical Power Testing 14:40 Transitioning from Zwift to Structured Coaching 17:42 Preparing for Competitive Racing 20:38 Key Takeaways and Future Goals 23:38 Conclusion and Coaching Support  Josh's crit result: https://youtu.be/ONBx5Z8S6y0?si=dgozDX_eCF0-srKu Cycling coaching with the RCA; https://roadcyclingacademy.com/one-to-one-coaching/  Speaker 2 (00:00.376) Welcome back to the RCA podcast where today I am joined in the studio, I should say, which is my house, by RCA coach Ben Treble. What are you doing in town, Ben? Just up here for a short holiday and escape the drizzly Sydney weather for some warm beachy Queensland northern riding. Noosa weather is nice, isn't it? Come for holiday if you've never been. Today, we're going through three topics while Ben is in town. So we're gonna have three in a row podcasts where we're face to face. Perhaps you can let us know in the review section what you think of this face to face versus the typical we do them online. But today we're gonna talk about Zwift and Zwift programs and Zwift workouts and been very nice. Speaker 2 (00:48.204) I don't want to throw Zwift under the bus specifically, but a lot of people when they think about off-the-shelf plans, they think about Zwift because that's probably the most common one, but this comes in the form of Wahoo system, there's Trainer Road, and we've even got off-the-shelf plans on our own website. Probably a little bit different, I'd say, to these online subscription-based plans, but I wanted to talk about them in the sense of... you know, are they good or are they bad or like how should we be looking at these things? Because I know we're going to talk about a member today and we get a lot of inquiries where people are coming off Zwift programs or off the shelf programs on another platform and they've done them well initially but then they've hit a bit of a plateau and they're not sure why and you know, they lean into some more customized coaching and as you'll hear today, an athlete or an RCA member that Ben has been Training has had some huge improvements. So I'm going to ask you the question specifically Ben Zwift workout swift plans. What do you think about them? Nice in the short term and that's about it. Yeah. My, my knowledge of most of them that I've seen and from a few athletes, cause it's pretty common scenario where we see a new athlete to cycling and they start with the say a swift program or something similar. And you look at the history and it's a often just a lot of sort of hit random interval workouts. And when I look at those intervals, I'm often asking myself this question. Okay Ben Treble (02:23.852) Like what was the purpose of this, like interval session? It's, some random intervals with lots of variation. When you say lots of variation, you're talking about like jumping between different zones or... Yeah, jumping across different zones or within a zone, just changing the power output quite often and a bit random. I'll just... My view on it pretty simple is Zwift program is often designed to keep you in Zwift. And so they create these programs that are really interesting and really engaging. And that's how they keep you going, that's how they keep you motivated, and that's how you... People love Zwift programs. They get through them because, yeah, there's so much variation, it just keeps you hyper-engaged and... there's a lot of high intensity and when you're new to cycling, any work that you do will often see some improvement. It's been quite difficult as well, I find. Like, I'm a bit of a stickler in the off-season, so I can't be bothered thinking about something. I'll go on Zwift, and, you know, I appreciate Zwift. I think it's a great platform, particularly the bunch riding and the racing. But even their workouts, I often do them. But I struggle to find workouts that are, you know, like a six or seven out of ten. They're all like an eight or nine or even a ten out of ten. They're always, you know, I pick one, I'm like, Speaker 2 (03:40.962) I'm halfway through it, I'm like, this is actually, it's a really hard workout. So you do finish going, endorphins are pumping. You know, I feel like I've really done something. Yeah, your dopamine is just massively spiked, right? It's the same old school adage. If you go to the gym and people used to just go crazy hard at the gym because, you know, if you don't feel sore straight after all the next day, it wasn't a good session, which we just know isn't necessarily the right approach these days. We know a lot better. So same with Zwift. You know, you get these athletes, they're new, you get a lot of high intensity. They're going to see a lot of improvement really quick, but equally they're going to plateau pretty quick. And it's because the athlete adapts really quick, really early. but the Zwift program is not adapting with them. Okay, do also think that, you know, maybe taking the spotlight off Zwift and off the platforms that also a lot of recreational and amateur road cyclists that are choosing these plans or choosing these workouts also don't really know where they're at and what they should be doing and therefore the risk of choosing the wrong plan or like I want to build my FTP so FTP builder, you know what mean? you should actually probably be doing this before you do an FTP builder. Do think that factors into the situation here? Ben Treble (04:54.156) Yeah, big time. mean, you can't exactly go to one of these online platforms and say, my goal is to improve my bunch riding skills. That's, that's, it's not going to teach you that. And when you're a beginner, you don't know what you don't know. And often it's great to focus on something as singular as FTP, but if you want to be a great rider, you actually have to work on a whole subset of skills from technical skills on the bike. And strategic skills, if you want to race to your power on the bike, like your power on the bike is just one component. It's a little bit useless unless all you want to do is swift racing or time trialing up a climb. But if you want to race, you can have all the power you want in the world. But if you don't know how to ride in a bunch and draft or know how to follow a tax or fuel it properly, it's going to fall apart pretty quick. Yeah, and that's certainly been my experience as the inquiry guy at the RCA who, you know, speak to a lot of people coming on board before they get handed over to coaches. You know, it's a great, you know, pathway or segue from, you know, I'm just riding randomly to actually getting a feel or dipping my toe in structured training and seeing an improvement. But there's often, you know, from what I hear and from what you're... articulating is there is a plateau that happens quite quickly. And yeah, think a lot of it has to do with the high intensity. It's, you know, it's fast acting, but fatiguing. putting that aside and, you know, looking at this recent member specifically that's has come from this space. Can you tell me a little bit about who the individual is and, you know, what they were doing and what you've done? with them and the improvements that they've subsequently seen. Ben Treble (06:48.428) Yeah. Yeah. I don't think this writer is going to have any issue with me talking about him. he's, he's been on our channel, already on our socials for us. And he's also doing his own YouTube thing. So yeah, his name is Joshua. he's over in the U S he was a relatively new writer and he's very simply, he's done some swift programs. one of his goals was around weight loss and the other was to get fitter. Okay. and equally through that process, He's started to lose weight. He's done some Zwift programs, become a lot fitter. And he's also started to just really enjoy riding. And then he's wanted to both learn more about cycling in general. And he felt like he was starting to plateau with the Zwift work. And that's when he's come through to us at the RCA. Do you know where he plateaued? of like, you know, obviously FTPs and that metric that we all kind of know. Did he hit a plateau there or was it more just a general feeling of fatigue or just mentally just done? Yeah, I don't think he, from memory, Joshua didn't, he's not like he's done one FTP tests and done another and realized there was a plateau. It was a general feeling when he came, when we had our first coaching call together, you he just told me that he had a feeling that he was plateauing. Like I didn't feel like he was progressing anymore. Not at the same rate that he was when he started. Okay, so what was the first thing that you did? I, you know, obviously Joshua's unique, has his own goals, but I'm sure as a general blanket, this kind of scenario would be very, you know, familiar or similar, I should say, for other people in similar situations, you know, where they are doing these off the shelf for, or generic plans and they're feeling like they're plateauing, which was the case for Joshua. Speaker 2 (08:41.836) What did you do with him as the first step? Did you tell him not to ride for a month? Did you change the training completely? Like what did it look like? I would say the training, if you looked at his last month before he joined coaching with, with myself on say his fifth program to the first month of training that we did together, it probably looks very different. And part of that comes down to the periodization. So our first conversation, which is the same with any new athlete is around goal setting. one of the things I find seems to be bit of a pattern is yeah, you want to improve your FTP. and I often ask people why. Sounds good. Yeah, sounds good. I want to, and I say, if, if you want to go to the, be able to go to the cafe and just boast about having a bigger FTP, I don't have a problem with that goal. Let's go for it. But often I find when I dig into this, there's a lot more behind it. Okay. You know, it might be, actually, I want to improve my crit racing. Just improving your FTP doesn't necessarily mean you're going to improve your crit racing. Ben Treble (09:52.82) Equally, you might have someone who says, I want to work towards my grand, my first grand Fondo, like a long, a long event ride, say a hundred K a hundred miles, something like this. And you need to improve my endurance for that. Just focusing purely on FTP also isn't the answer, right? Maybe we need to try and progressively improve volume and look at your nutrition. So that's probably the first step. with Joshua. We worked out pretty quickly that he wanted to continue to try lose a little bit of weight or at least keep it down. And we also, he wanted to improve his volume and he wanted to improve his FCP. And the reason he wanted to improve the FTP is because he wanted to be able to push higher power for longer on short rides. So improve his anaerobic capacity and utilization. So what did the training look like? And we can probably make an assumption based off the start of this conversation with the Zwift stuff he was doing versus say the first month that you actually did. we look specifically about zones, what was he doing differently as a target? Yeah, I would say pretty quickly the two main differences would have been he wasn't really taking full rest weeks. So when we think of periodization, if we do a fairly standard, four week block, we have a three week build into one week of recovery or reduced volume intensity. If you looked at his program, that wasn't really happening. It was just continual progression across say a 12 week Zyft program where the intensity remained very high throughout the whole thing. And yes, he might've had one or two like days off, the, whenever he rode, was intervals. Right. Very rarely. mean, I wouldn't have found in his last month, like a single session where it was just say a zone one recovery ride for like 45 minutes. So that was probably the first thing that we did is we actually put Josh into more of a base block and we did some critical power testing. Okay. Speaker 2 (11:55.714) So for those people that don't know what critical power testing is, what is that? Yeah. So critical power is probably, let's call it an alternative to FTP. And to me, very simply, you could treat it. It's a, again, it's a threshold. Uh, it's a concept threshold and, we get two pieces of information from the testing in difference to FTP. FTP, you get this one piece of information. Let's say you have a threshold of 250 Watts. That's all the information you get. And then you base your zones off it. Critical power. lets you look at, it's a, it's a very similar notion, but it's a little bit more accurate because it's trying to account for the different balance in your anaerobic anaerobic capacities. So we get this threshold number, critical power, and then we get a second piece of information called your watt prime, which is an estimation of how many kilojoules of energy you should have in reserve when you go above your threshold. Okay. So it says if your critical power is 250 Watts and you have 18, you know, kilojoules, above in your reserve, can estimate how much can you go in the red before you're to have to back it off. So it's a little bit like having a piece of information around your anaerobic reserve. And with this, you can start to work out when you test, do you get differences? Like what impact is the training that you're doing having on these two numbers? And then again, you're going to create your zones based off critical power. Yeah, okay. So, and I think that one of the key benefits from a member's or an athlete's perspective is when they do retest, as you said, they've got the two numbers they can look at. It's not just solely focused on the one. In the case of FTP, it's a 20 minute test or it's a ramp test or something like that with critical power. We're looking at two different scenarios. So you can see improvement either across both facets or maybe one specifically. Ben Treble (13:51.982) Yeah, and the other thing that you're to get from critical power is the most common version of the testing involves doing three maximal efforts. One's usually around sort of the three minute, one's around the six minute and another 10, 12 or longer effort. And with these three numbers, you can create a, it's called a power duration curve. Something maybe a lot of riders probably seen in their Strava or could even have seen in their training peaks before. And this also helps you understand Like how is your power progressing in the power duration curve? Yeah, and so really it's three numbers, not two. Yeah, and it depends. mean, if you're testing, because I'm conscious, and I know we're going down a bit of a rabbit hole here on critical power, but you sometimes people, just so we don't overwhelm with testing initially, if they've already got a number where they've gone all out at a specific level, you know, we might say, we've kind of already done this test. Let's not overwhelm. Let's just do a couple. Was that the case with Joshua or did all three of those power tests? Yeah, we did all three. Yeah, we did a full, full week. I like to separate the efforts on separate days. Uh, you can mix them up on combinations, but particularly with retesting, find often within, you know, sort of if you're retesting every eight to 12 weeks, the nice thing is you often see at least one of those you'll get a PB of towards the end of an eight to 12 week block somewhere. Someone's going to do a power best in that three, six or sort of 12 minute range or sometimes two out of three and then you only need to do one max effort and you can recalculate their threshold without you know doing a full gamut of testing. Speaker 2 (15:31.95) So going back to Joshua's story, doing the Zwift program, there was no easier weeks, a lot of intensity plateaued. Now he's done a month of coaching with you and he's really backed it off. He's working more aerobically. He's doing a proper periodization. He's doing some testing. Where's he at after the first month? Because I'm conscious some people, when they step away from these Zwift programs or these, you know, system programs or whatever it might be. They find it a little bit challenging because they're used to the intensity and they're like, like, what are we doing here? Like, I don't feel like I'm doing much. Was there any pushback or like, how did they feel there? With Josh there wasn't any pushback, he probably had the question around, you know, I feel like... I think the comment that resonated with me was he said, oh, you know, I feel better, I feel like I have more energy. okay. For his workouts or just generally during the day? That was a general comment, but it meant that when he did the hard sessions, when we started to put in, you know, one or twice, once or twice a week, we did some interval sessions after that first month. You know, you've got full energy to go, to go all in on them and you're to recover a lot better from them. and you don't get this, I guess it's this ongoing fatigue, you know, and it's, think when you're in a state of feeling low energy, it's hard to stay motivated. That's one other component. You're not going to adapt and recover. Ben Treble (16:56.686) I think with Josh, I'm going to flip the coin a little bit on you. I want to talk about what he benefited from if I think in the first month or two from coaching and it wasn't just the programming. So there was a big shift in the programming. And I think for Josh, the biggest sort of benefits he started to get from having a coach that he wouldn't have got from the swift racing was primarily the, it was the ability to ask all sorts of questions that a new rider might have. And there were questions from setting up, you know, indoor training and connecting different platforms to nutrition questions. He really wanted to work on learning how to eat on the bike to the conversation around one of our goals that we set was I want to do my first race. And what stuck with me greatly was he said to me two weeks out, you know, that's what we focus on. started doing some training for his first crit race. And we talked about cornering technique. Okay. Ben Treble (17:54.22) We talked about bunch skills and a week out his bike broke completely kaput. I think his seat post snapped or something. So he comes to me, sends me a message and says, my bike is totally broken. They're going to see if they can get me a replacement. but I probably wouldn't get it till the Friday, like the day or two before. And it's going to be a different model of bike. So it's, I'm not sure. I'm at time for a bike fit. I'm probably never going to have ridden it before, maybe once, you know, should I still do the race? I'm not sure. I don't think I should do it. And my response to Josh was, I think you should absolutely do it. think your capability to ride a bike hasn't changed. You can set it up reasonably close and worst case scenario, you can just go in there and use it to get some experience to learn how does the race work. just get used to how do you sign into the race, how do you go through the race start nerves clipping in, learning how the bunch is riding, seeing the dynamics of the competitors in your group. worry about getting dropped if it happens. Yeah, and don't be afraid. Like if you get dropped, it's not a big deal. There's another race two weeks later. It's a crit race. Like you're going to have races where you get dropped and that is totally fine. So just use it as a learning experience. And that's what he did. He went into it and he said, okay, I'm going to give it a crack. And he also said to me, I'm going to take my, I think he had a 360 cam, you know, or a GoPro or something. he said, I'm going to film it. Speaker 2 (19:30.286) I'll see you the video. And I'm going to wear my RCA kit and, and you know, do you think you would look at the footage afterwards? I was like, absolutely. Like it's probably a coach's dream to have your athlete take a 360 cam because you get to review bits of footage, like how were they cornering? What was their position on the bike? How did they sprint? And I mean, at the end of the day, Josh had a perfect race, you know, because he won. Yeah. Wow. Wow, that's crazy. He probably had, you know, the newbie advantage where people don't know who he is a little bit. But he made it, his positioning on the last lap was amazing. Probably like towards the last few turns he was in sort of fifth wheel and a gap opened up and he went for the sprint early and no one, he's got a very strong sprint. So no, there were bikes behind him. Yeah, that's great. We can drop the YouTube link in the description if anyone wants to see it for themselves. obviously, yeah, what you're articulating there is within a Zwift program or any online program, you're not gonna get that, obviously. that alignment with Josh and understanding of him and having experience, that... Speaker 2 (20:51.456) your wisdom gave him the confidence to just go and have a crack. And now he's won his first crit. Awesome, doesn't always happen. Like don't expect that if you're listening. But in this case, it's also changed the dynamic of what he wants to do longer term. Before we go into that, can you tell me like, you know, training wise, what kind of stuff were you doing with him leading into the crit for his first crit? And you know, you leveraging his strengths because You mentioned he had a strong sprint. So is that what you were training or what were you looking at after this first month of doing more aerobic work and sort of getting rid of some of the fatigue, doing some critical power testing? How long between that first month and the crit race was it and what were you doing specifically? Yeah, we probably had a good weeks from when we started to the first race, which was a nice build. So we actually did a, from memory, we did a base block where we did some testing and some familiarization. We went into a building block where we focused on VO2 max with, one of my favorites, the 3015s. So we did a combination of, we sort of had three, let's if you want to call it three hard sessions or three focus sessions, which was the 3015s. We did some more classic. Okay, nice. Ben Treble (22:06.702) Like hard start via twos so but we did the four minute variant so it's a hard start VO2. So you actually start off at a higher VO2 level in the four minutes and then fatigue as you, which is a weird one for me because before we spoke, and I know you were overseas and spoke to some sports scientists that have been in the space for years and done a lot of research. So very well regarded. And this was a protocol. And I'm like, that's interesting. But I'd always thought that you're better off in an interval to start a little bit lower below where your target is and kind of creep into it and finish off strong. Yeah, I mean, think if you want, that's a different pacing strategy. If you want to go for a personal best time on a climb, that might be appropriate. if, if the goal is to improve VO2 max, the science where it's at at the moment is we want to maximize time spent above 90 % VO2 max. And so the, know, if we're only doing a four minute interval, if you're spiking towards the end, maybe the first two minutes, you're only, you're at 60. 70 % VO2 max and it's only the last two minutes you're above 80, 90. So it's not actually a lot of time you accumulate above 90%. Whereas if you spend the first one minute or two minutes at, you know, 10 % higher, so say 120, 130 % VO2 max, depends on the rider, you're going to spike the heart rate and spike the VO2 a lot quicker. So you're just going to get up into that 90 % VO2 max range. And then it's just about holding on and trying to keep it up there for the rest of the interval. Speaker 2 (23:42.19) Cool. So you're doing a lot of VR2 work. So you're one session a week, one every 30, 15, another session with these four minute VR2 max efforts. What was the third session? Yeah, third was sprint interval training. Okay. Yeah. Old favourite of mine. because you can do it on a longer ride. so I would mix this into a longer ride on the weekend, say sort of two hours somewhere around here. And the primary intensity is, is a low zone too, if not a high, even zone one ride, say for two hours, but every 10, 15 minutes you're doing a maximal 15 seconds sprint full gas. okay. And then whatever you do on the first one, just try and repeat it every 10-15 minutes till the end of the ride and then you're done. Okay, so how many would you be doing roughly? Ben Treble (24:30.166) We started with an hour and then we progressed him up to an hour and a half in the writing so he's only doing like four to five. Four to five sprints. Yep, nice. These intense sessions over this period of time, and obviously there's some variation in them, they're not all the same, you know, as weeks progress because you want to be constantly shocking the muscle and adapting the rider and changing what they're doing, but did you ever do any back-to-back sessions in terms of intensity? Because I know that's, going back to how we started the conversation, you know, with these off-the-shelf plans, often particularly... know, Zwift plans and my system plans, quite often they'll do back to back, even back to back to back days of intensity. And that's what people are used to. So did you do that at all? Or were they always alternated between sort of rest days or easy base days and so forth? yeah. So no back to backs. got definitely not. I think at an amateur level, when you do hard sessions, they need to be quite hard and to do those well, you need to be fairly recovered. So, and I think they're quite fatiguing. So you just, to get the best out of them, especially at an amateur recreational rider level, very often with someone who's working, say a job Monday to Friday, what you end up doing is, is Monday's either a full off day or a recovery ride. And then Tuesday's some intervals, hard session, Wednesday, either full off or recovery ride Thursday, intervals, hard session, Friday, easy. And then Saturday, Sunday might be one day is a long ride. The other is a family day. So then you sort of getting two hard sessions, one long ride and two easy rides. Ben Treble (26:20.8) in the wake depends on their availability. Yeah, of course. And you would probably have RCA members you work with where one of those rides would be a group ride, a fast bunch ride, because I'm conscious that some people, they love that stuff and it's not negotiable. Yeah, this was not a, Josh wasn't at the time doing any bunch rides or group rides. So that wasn't really, yeah, a little bit. Yeah. He's interested in now. So we'll have to manage that as we go. I can think of some other athletes of mine where this has been a big topic because often the challenge with group rides is there's this, this balance. if, if you want to do the group rides and the high intensity focused work, you end up with too many hard days and often back to back. Is he sniffing them out now? Ben Treble (27:07.4) so my question is depending on the time of the year, let's focus. For example, if it was winter training, you might say, let's do a lot more bunch rides and less focused intervals. But then as we get more targeted and we want to peak for an event, for example, you might just have the conversation, right? We need to prioritize the intervals where maybe you do one bunch ride in the week, and then you're doing intervals on the second hard day in the week. And there might even be some weeks where you would, you almost, I would call it like a training camp, for example, and you say, no bunch rides this week, we're just going to do some focus training. Yeah, okay. Good. So with Josh, some of the things that he achieved and now, well, it's been about 12 weeks since he shifted away from those online programs. He's obviously won his first race. He feels fresher. He's had improvements, obviously, but is there anything else? Is there an FTP increase that we should be talking about, even though it's not about FTP? Or was there some big five minute... You know. We're about to go up to, we're about to redo some testing. Okay. we're coming up to 12 weeks. I wanted to wait till after he got through the race. So the race only happened the other week. So that's, yeah, stay tuned for that. the good news is he's hit a lot of PBs. So we can tell you already that he's very happy with his improvements. I think the outcome from the race really was actually more around what are his goals and focus. And we've managed to bolster those. He's, he said, I love racing. Ben Treble (28:41.09) And I love crit racing. I want to get a bit, use the end of the season, cause we're going towards the end of summer in the U S going to go into winter soon. Let's try and get a few more races in just so we can gain experience and exposure. And then we've already set goals. Okay. What category do we want to get to next year? And so now we were talking about what do we want to do to set him up for the crit season next year? And that's a conversation on everything from equipment to training to motivation. Yep, good. So if somebody's listening to this and they're like, okay, so I'm currently doing a Zwift FTP builder. I'm feeling fatigued. Things need to change. I'm gonna summarize what you've said and you can correct me or add. First things first, they should probably take a step back and just take it easier for maybe a block, three to four weeks. So... maybe focus on aerobic work, so they freshen themselves up, they're building the aerobic foundation. And while they're doing that, they should be assessing, okay, what's their longer term goals? Because it's not all about FTP, as you said, you know, want to improve my FTP, Josh said, but he actually, wanted to build for a race. So then the training becomes a little bit more specific. So while you're freshening up in this base period, you're thinking about, okay, what I want to achieve longer term. And then once you've sort of narrowed in on what that longer term goal is, you start looking at, you know, workouts. that align to what that goal is. When I say workouts, I'm talking about a blend of endurance aerobic workouts and intensity workouts. And then make sure you're periodizing your plan so you're having easier weeks. So you're not just doing intensity, intensity, intensity and make sure you're not doing too much intensity as well. Because I think that's one of the big issues with some of these plans is every time you throw the leg over, it's pretty much intense. So you're splitting or alternating your intense days with aerobic. Speaker 2 (30:37.398) or easier days in addition to adding an easier week in there every third or fourth week. That's kind of very high level. Obviously it goes a lot deeper, but as a high level summary, would you say that's right, Ben? Anything to add? Yeah, I think that's about it. You know, I think the individual individualization of the periodization is a big one and taking more recovery and then having focused interval sessions based on your strengths, weaknesses and goals is probably the really big shift that you would say. Good. All right, thanks for your time, Ben. If you're out there listening and you're like, well, I wouldn't mind some support with my training, like Joshua got from the RCA, make sure you head to the RCA's website. That's www.roadcyclingacademy.com. Click on hire a coach in the menu system and there you can join. Joshua's doing monthly or weekly? Monthly coaching. And of course, if you have any questions, there's a contact form there and you'll meet me at the other end. monthly. Speaker 2 (31:36.174) We'll catch you in the next podcast. Â
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