Being Well with Forrest Hanson and Dr. Rick Hanson

Most of what people know about Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) comes from movies and short videos, and those media portrayals often have little to do with what DID is actually like. To get the real picture, today Forrest is joined by Dr. Milissa Kaufman and Dr. Lauren Lebois, experts in dissociative disorders and trauma research. Dr. Kaufman had DID herself, went through treatment, and made a full recovery.

They explore the spectrum of dissociation, from everyday experiences to clinical presentations like DID, before talking about how DID develops as a childhood adaptation to trauma, the problem with the term “multiple personality disorder,” and what the brain science tells us. Milissa describes her own “inside people,” the shame and secrecy associated with DID, and the slow shift from "that wasn't me" to "that was me all along." They then cover what treatment looks like, what to actually look for in a therapist, and what recovery means.

About our Guests: Dr. Milissa Kaufman is a trauma psychiatrist at McLean Hospital and Associate Professor of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. Dr. Lauren Labois is a cognitive neuroscientist and Assistant Professor of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. They are co-directors of the Dissociative Disorders and Trauma Research program at McLean Hospital.

Check out the Trauma Continuum at Hill Center: https://traumacontinuum.org/

Key Topics:

0:00: Intro and Dr. Kaufman's personal experience with DID

6:51: The spectrum of dissociation: Depersonalization, Derealization, and Dissociative Identity Disorder

17:12: Dr. Kaufman's experience of DID

22:58: The paradoxes and shame involved with DID

36:46: History of skepticism around DID, and the role of modern neuroscience

43:09: Treatment for DID and trauma-informed treatment

1:00:43: What healing and recovery looks like

1:10:48: Recap

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Dr. Rick and Forrest continue last week’s conversation on avoidance coping, this time focusing on how to move from insight into meaningful action. They explore why self-awareness often isn’t enough to create change, focusing on common impediments like ambivalence, shame, and the difficulty of seeing our patterns in real time. They then unpack the practical science of change: surfacing predictions behind avoidance, testing them through right-sized experiments, and fully internalizing the outcomes. Other topics include scaffolding, state-dependent learning, the HEAL process, and what to do when the dreaded experience actually happens.

Key Topics:

0:00: Intro: why awareness isn't enough

4:54: Ambivalence to change

13:50: Other impediments to change22:00: How to want to change

28:42: Creating predictions

32:26: Setting up an effective experiment

43:26: Linking new outcomes to old memories

1:01:51: Recap

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We all have patterns we can see clearly…and still can't seem to stop. Dr. Rick and Forrest explore how avoidance fuels these patterns, and how we can break the avoidance loop by updating our expectations and predictions about the future. They discuss what avoidance coping is, how the brain works as a prediction machine, why that means insight alone usually isn't enough to break a pattern, and what the current science of exposure and expectancy violation says about how change actually happens. 

This is the first of two episodes dedicated to this topic, the second will focus on how to brave our feared experiences and go from insight to action.

Key Topics:

00:00: Intro: avoidance coping and mental predictions

8:07: Five types of avoidance behaviors

17:35: The invisible cage

23:50: Predictive processing

29:49: Identity and high confidence predictions

34:30: How avoidance can perpetuate painful experiences

40:01: Exposure and the Inhibitory Learning Model

52:00: Answering common questions

56:07: Recap

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Forrest is joined by one of the world's leading happiness researchers, Dr. Sonja Lyubomirsky, to discuss the real secret to happiness: feeling loved. Dr. Lyubomirsky explains the key difference between being loved and feeling loved, why self-improvement (usually) isn’t the answer, and how giving love leads to getting love. They then walk through five mindsets that help people both get more love and feel more loved. Other topics include the vulnerability paradox, capitalization and the importance of enthusiasm, using the mindsets to evaluate our relationships, polyamory and non-monogamous love, and AI companions.

You can find Sonja's diagnostic quiz at howtofeelloved.com 

About our Guest: Dr. Sonja Lyubomirsky is a Professor of Psychology at UC Riverside, and the author of a number of bestselling books including How to Feel Loved with Dr. Harry Reis. She is one of the most frequently cited well-being researchers in the world.

Key Topics:

0:00: Intro: connection as the key to happiness

2:31: The difference between being loved and feeling loved

6:58: What love is

9:09: If only beliefs and the vulnerability paradox

19:36: Mindsets to embrace if you're looking for more love and connection

23:26: The relationship “sea”saw

31:44: Five mindsets to embrace if you want to feel more loved

51:51: AI companionship, polyamory, and MDMA

1:08:03: Recap

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Last week, Dr. Rick and Forrest discussed why healthy conflict is a vital part of strong and intimate relationships. Today, they focus on the how-to of effective repair: what it looks like, why it’s so hard, and how to do it well. Together they walk through four common patterns of conflict, offering guidance on how to interrupt the cycle, turn down the heat, and get back on the same team. They offer tools such as compassionate curiosity, affectionate humor, and taking maximum reasonable responsibility. Finally, they discuss the personal benefits of healthy conflict and repair: when we have a new experience and truly take it in, we can learn that conflict doesn’t have to lead to disconnection, disappointment, or abandonment. 

Key Topics:

0:00: Intro and what healthy repair looks like

5:26: Red flag: the withdrawal of caring and compassionate curiosity

9:26: Initiating repair

12:24: Scenario 1: The "accidental argument"

21:10: Scenario 2: The chronic broken commitment

40:01: Scenario 3: The missed bid

1:01:38: Scenario 4: The “seeming” change in relationship

1:07:11: Taking in repair

1:16:23: Recap

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