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The Science and Art of Open Water Swimming

Grant Landers
The Science and Art of Open Water Swimming
Latest episode

37 episodes

  • The Science and Art of Open Water Swimming

    Dr Jeremy Drake: Persistence, Exercise and Cancer Research

    2026/08/31 | 45 mins.
    Dr Jeremy Drake is a cancer researcher at Deakin University, a former elite triathlete and a current world championship age-group medallist. More than twenty years ago, I had the opportunity to coach Jeremy during his early years in elite draft-legal triathlon. Since then, his journey has spanned international triathlon competition, a PhD in cancer biology and a career dedicated to understanding how exercise and stress influence cancer progression.

    In this conversation, we explore the lessons Jeremy learnt from elite sport, including a challenging introduction to draft-legal racing in Hobart and the persistence required to bounce back just six weeks later. We discuss the realities of balancing a PhD with high-performance sport, the role of resilience in both science and athletics and the personal experiences that shaped Jeremy's commitment to cancer research.

    Jeremy shares the story of his mother's breast cancer diagnosis, how it transformed his perspective as both a scientist and a son and the importance of persistence when facing setbacks in life, sport and research.

    We also dive into some fascinating emerging science exploring the relationship between exercise, stress and cancer. Jeremy explains what myokines are, how exercising muscles communicate with the rest of the body and why researchers are increasingly interested in the role physical activity may play in improving cancer outcomes.

    We also discuss:

    The unique demands of elite draft-legal triathlon

    Persistence, failure and learning from setbacks

    Balancing sport, research and life

    Stress and cancer progression

    Exercise as medicine

    Art, creativity and fundraising for cancer research

    The future of exercise oncology

    Links
    ProMetTre Cancer Research
    https://pmtcr.org/

    Jeremy Drake, Deakin University
    https://experts.deakin.edu.au/43898-jeremy-drake

    Instagram
    https://www.instagram.com/scienceandartofows/

    Enjoyed this episode?
    If you found this conversation valuable, share it with a training partner or someone in your swimming or triathlon community.

    You can also follow The Science and Art of Open Water Swimming on Facebook and Instagram for more episodes, insights and updates.

     

    This interview was recorded on Whadjuk Noongar Boodjar. I acknowledge the Noongar people as the Traditional Custodians of these lands and waters and pay my respects to Elders past and present.
  • The Science and Art of Open Water Swimming

    Prof Peter Reaburn: Successful Ageing, Masters Athletes and Swimming for Life

    2026/08/24 | 48 mins.
    What does it mean to age successfully as an athlete?

    In this episode, I sit down with Professor Peter Reaburn, one of Australia's leading experts on masters athletes and someone who has spent a lifetime bridging the gap between sport science and real-world athletic performance.

    Peter's journey spans competitive swimming, surf lifesaving, triathlon, academia and masters sport. From winning one of Queensland's earliest triathlons and achieving his goal of racing the Ironman World Championship in Hawaii, to leading research into healthy ageing and athletic performance, Peter brings a unique combination of scientific expertise and lived experience.

    Together, we explore:

    What defines a masters athlete

    The concept of successful ageing

    Why increasing numbers of older adults are turning to open water swimming

    The role of social connection in lifelong participation

    How training should evolve as we age

    The importance of maintaining intensity and introducing new training stimuli

    Strength training, muscle mass and healthy ageing

    Recovery, sleep and nutrition for masters athletes

    Open water swimming skills, safety and preparation

    Common mistakes older athletes make

    Practical advice for swimmers who want to remain active and competitive for life

    Throughout the conversation, Peter shares not only the science underpinning healthy ageing and athletic performance, but also lessons learned from more than five decades in swimming, surf lifesaving and endurance sport.

    Whether you're an open water swimmer, triathlete, coach or simply interested in maintaining health and performance as you age, this episode provides valuable insights into what it means to stay active, engaged and thriving throughout life.

     

    Resources Mentioned in This Episode

    Research on successful ageing in masters athletes (David Geard and colleagues)

    Research on recovery in masters athletes (Thomas Doering, Nattai Borges and colleagues)

    Peter Reaburn's work on masters athlete training, recovery and longevity

    Miami Masters Swimming Club

    Masters Swimming Australia

     

     

    Enjoyed this episode?

    If you found this conversation valuable, share it with a training partner or someone in your swimming or triathlon community.

    You can also follow The Science and Art of Open Water Swimming on Facebook and Instagram for more episodes, insights and updates.

    https://www.instagram.com/scienceandartofows/ (@scienceandartofows)

    This interview was recorded on Whadjuk Noongar Boodjar. I acknowledge the Noongar people as the Traditional Custodians of these lands and waters and pay my respects to Elders past and present.
  • The Science and Art of Open Water Swimming

    William Ellis: Why We Come to the Water

    2026/08/17 | 47 mins.
    Why do people come to the water, and what keeps them returning?

    In this episode, I’m joined by William Ellis: open-water swimmer, marathon swim coach, actor, voice artist, and host of An Open Water Swimmer's Podcast. Through his own swimming journey and hundreds of conversations with swimmers from around the world, Will has developed a unique perspective on resilience, community, personal growth, and the role the water can play in helping us navigate life's challenges.

    Our conversation explores:

    Developing mastery when progress feels slow

    What acting and swimming can teach us about resilience

    Confidence, uncertainty and taking on ambitious challenges

    How swimming helped Will navigate grief and adversity

    The importance of community and connection in open-water swimming

    What Will has learned from interviewing swimmers from all walks of life

    Why people come to the water, and what they find there

    We also discuss Will's successful English Channel crossing, his circumnavigation swims of Jersey, his preparation for a 70 km lengthwise swim of Lake Geneva, and the charitable work supporting his son Odie's specialist school.

    Find out more about Will
    🌊 An Open Water Swimmer's Podcast
    https://owswimpod.com 

    🎙️ William Ellis
    https://www.williamhenryellis.com 

    🏊‍♂️ Open Water Swimming profile
    https://www.openwaterswimming.com/actor-and-open-water-swimmer-will-ellis-raises-funds-for-charity-through-podcast-and-solo-swims/ 

    ❤️ Lake Geneva fundraiser supporting Odie's specialist SEND school
    https://www.justgiving.com/page/william-ellis-lake-geneva?newPage=true 

    Enjoyed this episode?
    If you found this conversation valuable, share it with a training partner or someone in your swimming or triathlon community.

    You can also follow The Science and Art of Open Water Swimming on Facebook and Instagram for more episodes, insights and updates.

    https://www.instagram.com/scienceandartofows/ 
    (@scienceandartofows)

    This interview was recorded on Whadjuk Noongar Boodjar. I acknowledge the Noongar people as the Traditional Custodians of these lands and waters and pay my respects to Elders past and present.
  • The Science and Art of Open Water Swimming

    Sam Moore: Community, Inclusion and the GeoBay Swim

    2026/08/10 | 37 mins.
    What makes an open water swimming event truly accessible?

    In this episode of The Science & Art of Open Water Swimming, I speak with Sam Moore, one of the driving forces behind the GeoBay Swim, a unique 20 km point-to-point swim from Dunsborough to Busselton that has quickly become a favourite on the Western Australian open water swimming calendar.

    Sam shares the story of how the event grew from an idea during Ironman WA training sessions in Geographe Bay, and how a chance conversation led him to discover that coach Mick Bray had created a similar swim years earlier. We explore how that original concept evolved into the GeoBay Swim we know today.

    We discuss:

    The origins and history of the GeoBay Swim

    The influence of Mick Bray and the local swimming community

    Why the event doesn't require support boats

    The unique "beach party" changeover format

    Stopping the clock and encouraging a more social relay experience

    Wetsuits, inclusion, and reducing barriers to participation

    GeoBay's role as a stepping stone to swims such as Rottnest and Port to Pub

    Why the event continues to grow and recently sold out

    The future of the event, including potential shorter-distance options

    More broadly, this conversation explores how thoughtful event design can help more people experience the challenge, community and enjoyment of open water swimming.

    Links
    GeoBay Swim

    https://www.geobayswim.com.au/

    GeoBay Swim on Instagram

    https://www.instagram.com/geobayswim/

    GeoBay Swim on Facebook

    https://www.facebook.com/geobayswim

    Parkinson's WA

    https://www.parkinsonswa.org.au/

    Connect with the Podcast
    Follow The Science & Art of Open Water Swimming for conversations with swimmers, coaches, researchers and event organisers exploring the many dimensions of open water swimming.

    If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend, your swim squad, or anyone interested in open water swimming.

     

    This interview was recorded on Whadjuk Noongar Boodjar. I acknowledge the Noongar people as the Traditional Custodians of these lands and waters and pay my respects to Elders past and present.
  • The Science and Art of Open Water Swimming

    Ben Roberts: Participation, Progression and the Growth of Open Water Swimming in WA

    2026/08/03 | 41 mins.
    Open water swimming in Western Australia continues to grow, attracting everyone from first-time ocean swimmers to elite athletes competing on the world stage.

    In this episode, I speak with Ben Roberts, Manager of Events and Partnerships at Swimming WA, about the evolution of the Swimming WA Open Water Series, now entering its twentieth season. We discuss the factors driving participation growth, how the series caters for swimmers of all ages and abilities, and the role open water swimming can play in building confidence, community and lifelong involvement in the sport.

    Ben also shares his own journey from elite pool swimmer to managing Australia's largest open water swimming series, along with his perspective on the opportunities and challenges facing open water swimming in Western Australia.

    In this episode we discuss:

    Ben's swimming journey and transition into sports administration

    The history and growth of the Swimming WA Open Water Series

    Why open water swimming is becoming increasingly popular in WA

    Participation trends across different age groups

    Creating opportunities for beginners through to elite athletes

    The importance of offering a range of event distances

    Open water swimming as a tool for retention and lifelong participation

    Regional events and expanding opportunities beyond Perth

    The pathway from pool swimming to high-performance open water competition

    The impact of hosting Australian Open Water Championships in WA

    The upcoming 3 km Knockout format and future innovations

    What the future of open water swimming in Western Australia might look like

    Mentioned in this episode
    Swimming WA Open Water Series https://www.openwaterswimming.com.au/

    Swimming WA https://wa.swimming.org.au/

    Swimming WA Open Water Series Facebook https://www.facebook.com/OWSSeries

    Swimming WA Open Water Series Instagram https://www.instagram.com/owsseries/

    Enjoyed this episode?

    If you found this conversation valuable, share it with a training partner or someone in your swimming or triathlon community.

    You can also follow The Science and Art of Open Water Swimming on Facebook and Instagram for more episodes, insights and updates.

    https://www.instagram.com/scienceandartofows/ (@scienceandartofows)

    This interview was recorded on Whadjuk Noongar Boodjar. I acknowledge the Noongar people as the Traditional Custodians of these lands and waters and pay my respects to Elders past and present.
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About The Science and Art of Open Water Swimming
The Science and Art of Open Water Swimming explores what it really takes to swim well and safely, in open water.   Hosted by endurance swimming coach and sport scientist Grant Landers, the podcast brings together swimmer stories, coaching insights, and evidence-based science to unpack performance, preparation, and decision-making in unpredictable environments.   Each episode features conversations with open water swimmers, triathletes, coaches, and researchers, covering topics such as training alongside work and family life, adapting to conditions, managing uncertainty, and learning from both success and setbacks.   The podcast is informed by Grant’s work coaching endurance swimmers and triathletes, as well as his research at the University of Western Australia, but it’s intended for the broader open water swimming community.   Whether you’re preparing for your first open water event or refining your performance at the endurance end of the sport, this is where swimmers, science, and the sea converge.
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