Distance To Empty

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Meet the Mammoths — Yassine Diboun: Twenty Years In, One Day at a Time
Today's guest represented the United States at the 2015 IAU Trail World Championships, where his team came home with silver. He's finished Western States multiple times, podiumed at HURT 100, and just completed his 20th hundred-miler at Bighorn this past June. He's also built one of the most respected trail communities in the country through Wy'east Wolfpack in Portland — and he's more than twenty years into recovery from addiction.
Yassine Diboun joins us to talk about why, two decades into this sport, Mammoth is the thing that finally gave him butterflies again. He tells the full story behind a moment at Hardrock in 2023: sprained ankle, deep in a funk on a hot dirt road, when a runner pulled alongside to say he'd heard Yassine talk about his drinking on a podcast and had just hit five years sober. (The runner then dropped him. Yassine passed him back at mile 88.)
We get into the parallels between recovery and ultrarunning — one day at a time, one aid station at a time — plus the origins of Wy'east Wolfpack, and Run TRG, the free running program he built with Portland's Alano Club for people in or seeking recovery. He also describes Move Through Darkness, the December sunset-to-sunrise run he started after a member of the community took his own life, and the year it poured for fifteen straight hours.
Mammoth will be his first 200-mile race, though not his first multi-day effort — he ran the entire Oregon section of the PCT, roughly 450 miles, about a decade ago. Sleep is the thing he genuinely doesn't know about yet, to the point that he's had an anxiety dream about negotiating a nap with his own crew.
Plus: Yassine took our Mingus basketball idea and ran his own version at an aid station in Oregon, where it was such a hit his race directors made it a permanent fixture. He's one of the few guests who arrives already knowing what he's in for — and he's calling his shot for a three-pointer at Mammoth.
In this episode:
Why a 200 now, after 20 hundred-milers
The runner at Hardrock, and why he stopped keeping his recovery private
Wy'east Wolfpack, Run TRG, and Move Through Darkness
450 miles on the Oregon PCT and what it did and didn't teach him about sleep
A dream about convincing his crew to let him sleep
Basketball at aid stations, and the Mingus idea going national
A prediction: good weather, sub-60, and a three-pointer

Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

⁠⁠⁠Play The Mammoth 200⁠⁠⁠ Video Game!

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Meet the Mammoths — Cole Crosby: From Pacer to Racer
Today's guest holds the course record for the Vermont 100K and the fastest known time on the 230-mile Bay Circuit Trail around Boston. He's run over 224 miles in 48 hours at Across the Years. And this past July, he became the first Rhode Islander ever to finish Badwater 135 — with Kevin somewhere out on that same course behind him.
Last October, Cole was at Mammoth 200 but not racing it. He was keeping Kevin company late in the race, pacing him through a stretch of not sleeping at all. This year he's on the other side of it.
Cole joins us to talk about what he took from watching a race fall apart in real time, the strange work of transitioning from Badwater's hyper-specific pavement training back into trail legs, and why running punchy, rocky, endlessly up-and-down terrain in Rhode Island may be better Mammoth prep than it sounds.
We also get one of the best video game stories of the series so far: Cole was on pace for a mid-50-hour virtual finish — a time Kevin still hasn't managed — when a pop-up appeared near the second-to-last aid station. He scrolled, tapped without reading, and was immediately disqualified for accepting aid outside an aid station. His wife Ashley, meanwhile, finished in the low 60s on her very first try, which Cole attributes to thirteen years of crewing him.
Plus: the MBA's expansion structure gets formalized (Mingus is the league, Mammoth gets the MBL), Cole reveals a free-throw percentage in the high 80s, and we float a future episode on the psychology of fun in ultrarunning.
In this episode:
Pacing at Mammoth last year and what it taught him about racing it
Post-Badwater recovery and getting trail legs back
Rhode Island training terrain and why it maps well to Mammoth
The DNF heard round the world: reading the fine print in a video game
Jerseys, free throws, and the birth of the Mammoth Basketball League
A course record prediction, and why tactics may matter more than early speed
Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

⁠⁠Play The Mammoth 200⁠⁠ Video Game!

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!
Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Meet the Mammoths — Ethan Herrera: Round Two on a Course That Humbled Him
Today's guest was one of roughly ninety people who finished the inaugural Mammoth 200 back in September 2025 — before any of us knew what this course actually demanded. He's kept racing well since, including a strong second-place finish at the Siskiyou Out and Back 100 this past July. And now he's back for round two.
Ethan Herrera joins us to talk honestly about a race that didn't go how he wanted: a rolled ankle early, asthma issues he fell behind on, hallucinations worse than he'd ever had, and the feeling of just getting worse and worse as the miles went on. He calls it "a special kind of bad" — and then explains why he took it as a lesson from the mountains rather than a failure, and what he's doing differently this year.
We also get into the descent off Mammoth Mountain that blew up his legs in the first ten miles, why Obsidian Dome's grapefruit-sized rocks make for such a strange contrast with the course's buttery singletrack, his advice for first-timers (the race doesn't really start until the second half), and a genuinely great moment at mile 130 when a massive herd of sheep — and one very watchful sheepdog — stopped him in his tracks and reset his whole race.
Plus: Ethan's background at the Speed Project, his path from climbing the Eastern Sierra to running through it, his work with Roark, and a confident promise to boldly miss a three-pointer if we put a hoop in front of him.
In this episode:
What an inaugural race teaches you that nobody can tell you in advance
"A special kind of bad" — asthma, hallucinations, and losing control of a race
Looking for the life jackets in the pain cave
The sheep, the sheepdog, and a mile-130 gratitude reset
Advice for anyone running Mammoth for the first time this year
Homework not done (he's not the first), and late submissions accepted
A sub-60 goal, and Kevin offering up his splits
Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

Play The Mammoth 200⁠⁠ Video Game!

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!
Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Meet the Mammoths — Devon Yanko: Twenty Years In, and Her First 200
Today's guest has been racing at the front of this sport for the better part of two decades. She's run Western States multiple times, kept winning races through a lupus diagnosis, moved up to altitude outside Salida, Colorado, and won the Tarawera Ultra in New Zealand outright this year. She has never run an official 200-mile race. That changes this October.
Devon Yanko joins us to explain how crewing Heather Jackson at Cocodona led directly to her pulling over on the side of the road an hour outside Flagstaff to email Tim Tollefson and sign up for Mammoth — right after deciding she'd never do anything like it. She talks about what she learned watching Heather's race up close, why adaptability beats a perfect plan, and how tearing a tendon at mile six of Scout Mountain 100 turned into the best possible rehearsal for a 200.
We also get into sleep — she's a self-described terrible sleeper who's never taken a dirt nap and has never hallucinated — plus a 2016 Western States chair, an hour lost, and the lesson she's been practicing for ten years since.
And then there's basketball. Devon owns one of the coveted MBA jerseys from Mingus, and it turns out there's a very good reason for that: she played Division I basketball at Fresno State, and won her state's three-point shooting contest as a high school senior, beating a future WNBA player. We're comfortable calling her the best basketball player in ultrarunning.
In this episode:
The roadside email that got her into Mammoth
Crewing Heather Jackson at Cocodona, and what it taught her about problem-solving
Running Tarawera through knee-deep mud, trench foot, and a dead watch
Sleep strategy from someone who genuinely can't sleep
Playing the Mammoth 200 video game as an Oregon Trail veteran
A D1 basketball résumé and a pre-committed yes to the MBA
Finish-line firsts, including a hug for Tim that may or may not be a strangle
Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California — 214 miles around a 760,000-year-old caldera, bookended by two summits of Mammoth Mountain. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!
Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Brian Reynolds' Four-Year Journey at Leadville to Becoming the First Double Amputee to Finish a 100-Mile Race
On this episode of Distance to Empty, Kevin sits down with Brian, who just days earlier became the first below-the-knee double amputee to finish a 100-mile trail race — completing the legendary Leadville Trail 100 in 28 hours and 55 minutes.
Brian takes us inside four years and four attempts at Leadville, from a first-year DNF where he had "absolutely zero idea" what he was doing, to prosthetic tread failures that cost him the race in years two and three, to finally crossing the finish line on Sixth Street surrounded by a 19-person crew. Along the way, he breaks down the engineering behind his running blades vs. hiking legs, why aid-station transitions can take eight-plus minutes of stripping down, drying off, and re-taping, and how he trains over 20 hours of weekly cardio without the mileage most ultrarunners rely on.
We also get into the mental side of the sport: hiding his legs under pants until his mid-twenties, the moment he stopped caring what people thought and started pushing his own limits, and why — despite training in the dark ages before adaptive-sports role models existed — he now gets to be the person others reach out to for answers.
Topics covered:
The difference between running blades, walking legs, and hiking legs — and why weight and heel flexion matter on a course like Hope Pass
Three straight years of prosthetic equipment failures and how he engineered his way past them
Why he skipped every shorter distance and went straight to a 100-miler
The 38%-higher energy cost of running as a double amputee, and how he fuels for it
His 19-person Leadville crew and the community that kept bringing him back
What's next: rim-to-rim-to-rim, Comrades, and a very unofficial 99% "no" to 200-milers