In this interview with Chris Steyn, Willem Els of the Institute for Security Studies (SS) and Richard Chelin, an independent governance specialist, describe how organised crime syndicates have transitioned from making fake Covid-19 vaccines to flood the South African market with fake pharmaceuticals, particularly lifestyle drugs, like those for weight loss. They also comment on breaking news that a Magistrate has rejected the plea deal of tenderpreneur Cat Matlala. Chellin raised the question whether the plea deal in this highly politicised case could have been rushed, and Els says: “...if you look at the charges that he is facing and you look at the severity of those charges and you look at the deal that's been cut with him, the two don't add up…that was a sentiment also of the judgment by the magistrate….”. As for the mystery surrounding the apparent assassination attempt on Crime Intelligence boss General Feroz Khan just days short of his appearance before the Madlanga Commission, Els adds: “They have to cut this one to the bone because I think it's in the interest of the rule of law in South Africa.”