"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis

This cross-post episode from the Future of Life Institute podcast features Luke Drago, co-author of The Intelligence Curse and co-founder of Workshop Labs, in conversation with Gus Docker. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. They explore whether it’s wise to build AI systems that directly compete with and potentially replace humans as economic actors, and how this could create an “Intelligence Curse” where those who control AI gain extreme power. Luke outlines societal strategies like open-source AI, company-level design principles that keep users in control of their data, and personal tactics such as N-of-1 careers and pursuing moonshot projects early. Sponsors: MATS: MATS is a fully funded 12-week research program pairing rising talent with top mentors in AI alignment, interpretability, security, and governance. Apply for the next cohort at https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr Tasklet: Tasklet is an AI agent that automates your work 24/7; just describe what you want in plain English and it gets the job done. Try it for free and use code COGREV for 50% off your first month at https://tasklet.ai Agents of Scale: Agents of Scale is a podcast from Zapier CEO Wade Foster, featuring conversations with C-suite leaders who are leading AI transformation. Subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (03:07) Defining The Intelligence Curse (09:34) Pyramid Replacement And Work (Part 1) (15:55) Sponsors: MATS | Tasklet (18:55) Pyramid Replacement And Work (Part 2) (25:29) Local Knowledge, Data Control (33:58) Dystopian Intelligence Curse Future (Part 1) (34:04) Sponsors: Agents of Scale | Shopify (36:52) Dystopian Intelligence Curse Future (Part 2) (48:07) Open, Safe AI Futures (01:02:47) Loyal Agents Versus Ads (01:14:06) Moonshots Over Safe Paths (01:17:49) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

Emmett Shear and Séb Krier debate whether today’s AI alignment paradigm—focused on control and instruction-following—is fundamentally flawed. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. They explore what changes if advanced AIs are better understood as beings with their own values, and why current control methods could drift toward something like slavery. The conversation dives into “organic alignment,” multi-agent simulations, evolving cooperation, and the possibility of AI moral standing as systems gain memory and continual learning. Sponsors: MATS: MATS is a fully funded 12-week research program pairing rising talent with top mentors in AI alignment, interpretability, security, and governance. Apply for the next cohort at https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr Tasklet: Tasklet is an AI agent that automates your work 24/7; just describe what you want in plain English and it gets the job done. Try it for free and use code COGREV for 50% off your first month at https://tasklet.ai Agents of Scale: Agents of Scale is a podcast from Zapier CEO Wade Foster, featuring conversations with C-suite leaders who are leading AI transformation. Subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (03:44) Defining organic AI alignment (14:48) Technical vs value alignment (Part 1) (19:55) Sponsors: MATS | Tasklet (22:56) Technical vs value alignment (Part 2) (Part 1) (31:34) Sponsors: Agents of Scale | Shopify (34:21) Technical vs value alignment (Part 2) (Part 2) (34:22) Labs, tools, and beings (43:22) AI personhood and consciousness (56:53) Safe futures and Softmax (01:04:17) Chatbots, mirrors, simulations (01:10:14) Doom, futures, and OpenAI (01:17:25) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

Kathleen Fisher and Byron Cook dive into automated reasoning and formal verification as tools for building truly secure software systems. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. They explain how formal methods can harden critical infrastructure against AI-enabled cyberattacks, and how assumptions, specifications, and proofs combine to deliver real security guarantees. The conversation explores using these techniques to train coding models, enable a “great software rewrite,” and power AWS’s new automated reasoning checks for AI agents and policy compliance. Sponsors: MATS: MATS is a fully funded 12-week research program pairing rising talent with top mentors in AI alignment, interpretability, security, and governance. Apply for the next cohort at https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr Tasklet: Tasklet is an AI agent that automates your work 24/7; just describe what you want in plain English and it gets the job done. Try it for free and use code COGREV for 50% off your first month at https://tasklet.ai Agents of Scale: Agents of Scale is a podcast from Zapier CEO Wade Foster, featuring conversations with C-suite leaders who are leading AI transformation. Subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (04:52) AI Reshapes Cybersecurity (10:16) Formal Methods Foundations (17:46) Security Properties Assumptions (Part 1) (21:27) Sponsors: MATS | Tasklet (24:27) Security Properties Assumptions (Part 2) (28:31) Helicopter Formal Verification (38:15) Proof Confidence And AWS (Part 1) (41:52) Sponsors: Agents of Scale | Shopify (44:40) Proof Confidence And AWS (Part 2) (50:33) Automated Reasoning For Policies (01:04:39) Generative AI Meets Verification (01:19:42) Securing Future AI Systems (01:31:19) Agentic Guardrails And Governance (01:40:44) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

This year-end live show features nine rapid-fire conversations to make sense of AI’s 2025 and what might define 2026. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. New York Assemblymember Alex Boris breaks down the RAISE Act's bid to curb catastrophic AI risks, the governor negotiations, and why a16z-backed ads are targeting him. Former White House AI adviser Dean Ball maps the emerging coalitions on AI, federal preemption, and what fast-improving coding agents could mean for policy and jobs. Forecaster Peter Wildeford debates selling vs "renting" chips to China and offers a 2026 outlook on agents, costs, and robotics. Recorded live as part of our AI 2025→2026 series (Part 2). Sponsors: Gemini 3 in Google AI Studio: Gemini 3 in Google AI Studio lets you build fully functional apps from a simple description—no coding required. Start vibe coding your idea today at https://ai.studio/build MATS: MATS is a fully funded 12-week research program pairing rising talent with top mentors in AI alignment, interpretability, security, and governance. Apply for the next cohort at https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr Framer: Framer is the all-in-one tool to design, iterate, and publish stunning websites with powerful AI features. Start creating for free and use code COGNITIVE to get one free month of Framer Pro at https://framer.com/design Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive Tasklet: Tasklet is an AI agent that automates your work 24/7; just describe what you want in plain English and it gets the job done. Try it for free and use code COGREV for 50% off your first month at https://tasklet.ai CHAPTERS: (00:00) Sponsor: Gemini 3 in Google AI Studio (00:31) RAISE Act status (04:52) Catastrophic risk focus (10:47) Super PAC backlash (16:17) Data centers and grid (19:47) Palantir and surveillance (23:42) Dean Ball joins (Part 1) (23:46) Sponsors: MATS | Framer (27:05) Dean Ball joins (Part 2) (32:00) Social media lessons (36:22) Trump preemption and chips (Part 1) (40:51) Sponsors: Shopify | Tasklet (43:59) Trump preemption and chips (Part 2) (44:50) Structural US-China decoupling (49:39) Peter on chip ban (55:43) Threat model and renting (01:02:55) Cost drops, revenue (01:16:03) Forecasting paradigm shifts (01:20:38) 2026 agents and robots (01:31:41) Show wrap and markets (01:42:28) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing

This year-end live show features nine rapid-fire conversations to make sense of AI’s 2025 and what might define 2026. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. Zvi Moshowitz maps the OpenAI–Anthropic–Google race, the denialism gap, and why his PDoom is still ~60–70%. Greg (ARC-AGI Prize), Eugenia Kuyda, Ali Behrouz, Logan Kirkpatrick, and Jungwon Hwang cover sample-efficient benchmarks and ARC-AGI 3, companions and human-flourishing metrics, continual-learning memory, Gemini 3 Flash for developers, and AI for scientific decisions. Sponsors: Gemini 3 in Google AI Studio: Gemini 3 in Google AI Studio lets you build fully functional apps from a simple description—no coding required. Start vibe coding your idea today at https://ai.studio/build MATS: MATS is a fully funded 12-week research program pairing rising talent with top mentors in AI alignment, interpretability, security, and governance. Apply for the next cohort at https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr Framer: Framer is the all-in-one tool to design, iterate, and publish stunning websites with powerful AI features. Start creating for free and use code COGNITIVE to get one free month of Framer Pro at https://framer.com/design Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive Tasklet: Tasklet is an AI agent that automates your work 24/7; just describe what you want in plain English and it gets the job done. Try it for free and use code COGREV for 50% off your first month at https://tasklet.ai CHAPTERS: (00:00) Sponsor: Gemini 3 in Google AI Studio (00:31) Live show experiment (02:26) Zvi: discourse and denial (13:28) Continual learning and doom (22:05) ArcAGI: what's missing (Part 1) (22:09) Sponsors: MATS | Framer (25:28) ArcAGI: what's missing (Part 2) (31:58) Scaffolds and tiny models (38:58) ArcAGI 3 game worlds (45:13) AI companions landscape (Part 1) (45:21) Sponsors: Shopify | Tasklet (48:29) AI companions landscape (Part 2) (58:14) Wabi apps and caution (01:08:16) Nested learning, layered memory (01:23:14) Gemini 3 Flash launch (01:34:09) RAG, agents, dev advice (01:42:20) Elicit speeds evidence synthesis (01:57:57) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing