The Human Trace

Guest: Ling Li
Summary

In this conversation, Helen Avadiar-Nimbalker speaks with investigative journalist Ling Li and advocate Michelle B.J. Moore about the complexities of the scam industry in Southeast Asia, which intertwines with human trafficking, organized crime, and exploitation. They discuss the brutal realities faced by victims, the challenges of rescue operations, and the urgent need for collaboration among NGOs, law enforcement, and the private sector. The conversation highlights the evolving tactics of scammers, the economic implications of scam compounds, and the critical need for funding and reforms to support victims and combat this growing crisis.

Takeaways

The scam industry is a complex web of exploitation.
Victims often face dual identities as both victims and perpetrators.
Rescue operations are hindered by corruption and lack of resources.
The geographic expansion of scam compounds is alarming.
Funding cuts severely impact NGOs and their ability to help victims.
Collaboration between NGOs and law enforcement is essential.
New recruitment tactics are emerging in the scam industry.
The intersection of cybercrime and organized crime complicates enforcement efforts.
Victim identification processes need urgent reform.
The economic impact of scam compounds on local communities is significant.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Cybercrime and Human Trafficking
02:39 Ling Li's Journey and the EOS Collective
05:32 The Brutality of Scam Compounds
08:26 Rescue Operations and the Role of NGOs
11:37 Victim-Perpetrator Duality in Scam Centers
14:45 Changing Profiles of Victims
17:22 Geographic Expansion of Scam Operations
20:31 The Impact of Funding Cuts on NGOs
23:37 The Role of Foreign Investors in Scam Compounds
31:44 Exploitation and Collaboration Challenges
35:37 Recruitment Tactics in Scamming
39:45 The Need for Real-Time Reporting
42:56 Data Sharing and Intelligence Collaboration
54:22 Victim Identification and Legal Reforms
01:00:25 Overlooked Sectors in Human Trafficking
01:04:03 Economic Impact of Scamming Compounds
01:11:44 The Global Expansion of Scamming and Its Victims
01:15:42 The Need for Collaboration and Reform
01:24:50 Funding Challenges and Solutions for Victims

Support the show
Published by Asia Freedom Network.
The Human Trace is produced to spark real conversations, amplify unheard stories, and trace the human impact behind global issues.
Helen Avadiar-Nimbalker is a trauma specialist, anti-trafficking strategist, and Director of the Asia Freedom Network. She is the founder of The Whispering Willow and CEO of Rise Foundation Asia — two organisations providing trauma-informed, community-based support for survivors of exploitation across Southeast Asia. With over two decades of experience, Helen has supported displaced communities, led survivor care initiatives, advised governments and civil society on systems reform, and shaped regional conversations on human rights, trauma, and justice.
Connect: linkedin.com/in/helenavadiarnimbalker
Learn more at asiafreedomnetwork.org and follow us on Instagram & LinkedIn @asiafreedomnetwork.

Guest: Yasmin Ullah (https://www.instagram.com/rohingyawomencollaborative/)
This conversation delves into the plight of the Rohingya people, exploring their identity crisis, personal journeys of displacement and the human element of refugee experiences. Yasmin Ullah, a Rohingya human rights activist, shares her insights on the historical context of the Rohingya's struggles, the importance of women empowerment in activism, and the challenges of intergenerational fight for her people. The discussion emphasizes the need for understanding, compassion, and collective action to address the ongoing crisis and support the Rohingya community.

Takeaways
The Rohingya have faced systematic erasure from history.
Displacement has deeply affected the Rohingya identity.
Women play a crucial role in Rohingya activism.
The journey of refugees is filled with human stories.
Intergenerational trauma impacts the Rohingya community.
Advocacy requires understanding international structures.
Cultural erasure is a significant issue for the Rohingya.
Healing is a non-linear process for survivors.
Collective action is essential for change.
The Rohingya community seeks to return home safely.
Chapters
00:00 The Rohingya Identity Crisis
16:18 The Journey of Displacement
28:32 Empowerment Through Activism
31:06 Empowering Rohingya Women for Change
36:35 The Quest for Effective Advocacy
40:51 Hope and the Delusional Human Spirit
45:02 Addressing Regional Responses to the Rohingya Crisis
50:40 Navigating Intergenerational Trauma and Healing
56:01 Call to Action: Supporting the Rohingya Movement
Support the show
Published by Asia Freedom Network.
The Human Trace is produced to spark real conversations, amplify unheard stories, and trace the human impact behind global issues.
Helen Avadiar-Nimbalker is a trauma specialist, anti-trafficking strategist, and Director of the Asia Freedom Network. She is the founder of The Whispering Willow and CEO of Rise Foundation Asia — two organisations providing trauma-informed, community-based support for survivors of exploitation across Southeast Asia. With over two decades of experience, Helen has supported displaced communities, led survivor care initiatives, advised governments and civil society on systems reform, and shaped regional conversations on human rights, trauma, and justice.
Connect: linkedin.com/in/helenavadiarnimbalker
Learn more at asiafreedomnetwork.org and follow us on Instagram & LinkedIn @asiafreedomnetwork.

With guest Tehmina Kaoosji. https://www.linkedin.com/in/tehmina-kaoosji/
Independent Broadcast Journalist, Partner & Comms Director, TBP Communications & Gender Equity Activist
In this episode of The Human Trace, journalist and gender equity advocate Tehmina Kaoosji joins us for a grounded conversation on gender-based violence, social inequality, and the critical role of media in shaping public perception. With a strong focus on Malaysia, Tehmina unpacks how systemic issues persist but also how younger generations are challenging harmful norms and creating cultural shifts from the inside out. This is a candid, hopeful and informed look at what it takes to move the needle in deeply rooted systems.
Support the show
Published by Asia Freedom Network.
The Human Trace is produced to spark real conversations, amplify unheard stories, and trace the human impact behind global issues.
Helen Avadiar-Nimbalker is a trauma specialist, anti-trafficking strategist, and Director of the Asia Freedom Network. She is the founder of The Whispering Willow and CEO of Rise Foundation Asia — two organisations providing trauma-informed, community-based support for survivors of exploitation across Southeast Asia. With over two decades of experience, Helen has supported displaced communities, led survivor care initiatives, advised governments and civil society on systems reform, and shaped regional conversations on human rights, trauma, and justice.
Connect: linkedin.com/in/helenavadiarnimbalker
Learn more at asiafreedomnetwork.org and follow us on Instagram & LinkedIn @asiafreedomnetwork.

With Kamal Raj of Cross Global Asia Foundation
This week on The Human Trace, we sit down with Kamal Raj — justice advocate and founder of Cross Global Asia Foundation — to uncover how the caste system, one of the oldest forms of systemic oppression, continues to shape modern-day exploitation.
From manual scavenging to bonded labour, Kamal breaks down how caste hierarchies intersect with class, poverty and trafficking vulnerabilities, often hiding in plain sight. This episode explores the silence around caste, the cultural complicity that enables it and the leadership needed to dismantle inherited injustice.
If you’ve ever wondered how deeply entrenched social systems drive exploitation and what it takes to challenge them, this conversation is not to be missed.

Books referenced by Kamal on the episode:

Bonded Labour by Siddarth Kara (https://www.amazon.com/Bonded-Labor-Tackling-System-Slavery/dp/0231158491 )

Annihilation of Caste by Dr B.R. Ambedkar  https://www.amazon.com/Annihilation-Caste-B-R-Ambedkar/dp/9390492734

These Seats Are Reserved by Abhinav Chandrachud https://www.penguin.co.in/book/this-seat-is-reserved/

SLAVERY IN ANCIENT INDIA Author: DEV RAJ CHANANA https://pphbooks.net/product_info.php/products_id/186

Slavery in the Tamil Country By Sundararaj Manickam https://www.google.co.in/books/edition/Slavery_in_the_Tamil_Country/09-7lAEACAAJ?hl=en&kptab=overview

Caste and Religion by A Sivasubramanian (https://www.amazon.in/Caste-Religion-Sivasubramanian/dp/819601712X) 
Support the show
Published by Asia Freedom Network.
The Human Trace is produced to spark real conversations, amplify unheard stories, and trace the human impact behind global issues.
Helen Avadiar-Nimbalker is a trauma specialist, anti-trafficking strategist, and Director of the Asia Freedom Network. She is the founder of The Whispering Willow and CEO of Rise Foundation Asia — two organisations providing trauma-informed, community-based support for survivors of exploitation across Southeast Asia. With over two decades of experience, Helen has supported displaced communities, led survivor care initiatives, advised governments and civil society on systems reform, and shaped regional conversations on human rights, trauma, and justice.
Connect: linkedin.com/in/helenavadiarnimbalker
Learn more at asiafreedomnetwork.org and follow us on Instagram & LinkedIn @asiafreedomnetwork.

with Heidy Quah (@heidyquah | Refuge for the Refugees)
In this episode of The Human Trace, we speak with a dedicated human rights activist Heidy Quah about the hidden war on refugees and undocumented communities in Malaysia and beyond.
We go beyond headlines — into detention centres, into hospitals where legal status dictates access and into the systems that criminalise survival. Heidy breaks down the structural neglect that leaves stateless children without protection, trafficked individuals without justice, and entire families trapped in legal limbo.
The crisis isn’t displacement — it’s how we’ve chosen to respond to it.
If you've ever wondered what it means to be invisible to a state, or what justice looks like for those excluded from it — this episode asks the hard questions.
Support the show
Published by Asia Freedom Network.
The Human Trace is produced to spark real conversations, amplify unheard stories, and trace the human impact behind global issues.
Helen Avadiar-Nimbalker is a trauma specialist, anti-trafficking strategist, and Director of the Asia Freedom Network. She is the founder of The Whispering Willow and CEO of Rise Foundation Asia — two organisations providing trauma-informed, community-based support for survivors of exploitation across Southeast Asia. With over two decades of experience, Helen has supported displaced communities, led survivor care initiatives, advised governments and civil society on systems reform, and shaped regional conversations on human rights, trauma, and justice.
Connect: linkedin.com/in/helenavadiarnimbalker
Learn more at asiafreedomnetwork.org and follow us on Instagram & LinkedIn @asiafreedomnetwork.