School of Podcasting: Expert Tips for Launching and Growing Your Podcast

How Do You Hit 4000 Episodes Without Losing Your Mind?
Today I'm talking with Glenn Hebert and Jamie Jennings from Horses in the Morning, the flagship show of the Horse Radio Network. They just crossed 4000 episodes, and since they're doing this daily, I had a ton of questions for them. Mainly: how do you keep your sanity?
Glenn has been on this show more times than any other guest, and I'll drop links to a few of those past conversations below. We also talk about how "Glenn the Geek" became a verb around here. I cut in a few times throughout the episode to riff on some of what we discussed, so stick around for that too.
Key Takeaways
Segments (not just guests) are what let a daily or frequent show survive without constantly reinventing the wheel.
A real community needs a place to talk to each other, not just a place to listen to you.
Feedback from your most invested listeners (not just anyone) should shape what you keep and what you cut.
You're making the show for the 80% who like it, not the 20% who don't.
If you're trying to make money at this, budget 10-12 hours of work for every hour that airs.

How Glenn and Jamie Keep Finding Something to Talk About
Jamie's husband asked her, before episode one, what she was even going to talk about after two weeks of a horse podcast. Sixteen years and 4000 episodes later, that question still makes her laugh. Glenn books guests only a week or two out, and most of the show's four or five segments per episode get planned the morning of. Being daily is actually their advantage: they can be timely in a way most podcasts can't.
Glenn admitted he basically is the show-prep service. Google Alerts and AI help him find stories faster than they used to, but the instinct for what's worth talking about still comes down to two to three hours of prep every single morning.
Segments Give You Somewhere to Put Your Energy
Jamie is the storyteller. Glenn plays the guy reacting to it. He described their pre-show routine: Jamie says she's got a two-to-five-minute story, and he already knows it's going to stretch to twenty minutes and he'll happily let it. That contrast, he said, is what makes the show work.
I've got segments on this show too (if you've got a favorite segment idea, feel free to send it in). One of mine is built entirely out of "this happened because I have a podcast." I used to do a "last five in five" segment where I'd share the last five things I listened to in under five minutes. Segments are useful because they don't all have to show up in every episode. When I don't have a big topic, I create a "podcast stew," a handful of small segments squeezed together. Takes the pressure off having to fill a big block of time. An episode just needs to be as long as it needs to be, and not a minute more.
Building a Community That Actually Talks to Each Other
Glenn says their community basically built itself once Patreon entered the picture around nine or ten years ago. One of their own listeners asked if she could start a private Facebook group for supporters, and it's grown into 30+ subgroups on everything from dogs to mental health, plus in-person meetups they run themselves.
Glenn's take, and I completely agree: the biggest mistake podcasters make when they say they want "community" is giving people no actual place to talk to each other. A community needs a room. You don't have a true community until they can talk to each other.
They get supporters directly involved too, birthdays shouted out on air, segment material submitted by listeners themselves. If your audience made the content, you already know they're going to like it.
Sponsors Who Become Part of the Family
Jamie and Glenn have given away more than $80,000 in prizes over 16 years, largely funded by sponsors who get a bit of airtime in exchange for product. Those relationships often graduate into full paid sponsorships once the brand sees it works.
That reminded me of Mark from Beyond Bourbon Street, a past guest of mine (episode 829) who had Two Chicks Walking Tours as a sponsor, then had listeners telling him in his own community that they'd taken the tour and loved it. That's the kind of proof that makes a sponsorship renewal conversation easy. And speaking of sponsors sticking around, I was listening to The New Media Show recently and they mentioned Todd Cochran had GoDaddy as a sponsor for around 21 years.
The Focus Group Most Podcasts Never Bother With
This one floored me. On top of their broader Patreon community, Glenn and Jamie run a rotating focus group of 12 listeners every six months whose entire job is to comment on every single episode. Every episode gets six to twelve honest responses.
That feedback has actually killed segments. They ran an "animal psychics" bit for a while that they personally enjoyed, but the negative response outweighed the positive, so it's gone. If you're going to ask your paying supporters for their opinion, you have to actually be willing to act on it.
Handling the People Who Don't Like You
Glenn's rule, learned from ten years running an improv theater company: about 80% of any audience likes what you do, and 20% doesn't. That ratio doesn't change. You're not making the show for the 20%. You're making it for the 80%, and Glenn pointed out the harder truth: a chunk of that 20% keeps listening anyway, seemingly just to be annoyed. Let it go.
Jamie added that after the true fans and the negative Nellies, there's a middle group whose feedback is the most useful because it's the most honest.
The Most Popular Segment Isn't the Guests
Right before hitting 4000 episodes, they surveyed listeners on favorite segments. The winner, by a wide margin: pure host banter, just Glenn and Jamie talking about nothing. Their biggest listener complaint over the years has actually been "too many guests." As Glenn put it, people come for the content and stay for the hosts.
What It Takes to Actually Make Money Doing This
Glenn's advice for a new podcaster wondering when the money shows up: niches make it easier. Horse people, in his words, are some of the most dedicated hobbyists out there, and that's true of plenty of other niches too (cycling, golf, you name it). Small and mid-sized brands without their own ad agencies are the sweet spot, and Glenn's found 80% of his sponsors by showing up in person at trade shows and introducing himself at every booth. He's been to 38 of them.
Their own listener survey backs this up: 80% of listeners said they'd bought a product because Glenn and Jamie talked about it on air in the last year. Only 25% said the same about a banner ad. Trust is the entire business model.
Doing the Show Sick, and Other Real-Talk Moments
When you're sick, you address it up front. Ignoring it doesn't work, because that's all the listener will focus on anyway. Same goes for a loud remote recording location. Be real about it and people roll with it, sometimes they even prefer it.
One detail that stuck with me: Jamie trains off-the-track thoroughbreds and has personally placed horses with listeners in 18 different states just by mentioning them on the show. That's community turned into real-world impact.
My Takeaways After the Interview
A few things I wanted to add once the mic was off:
Contact info matters more than you think. Always tell people how to reach you. For me that's schoolofpodcasting.com/contact. Someone recently told me they'd left a comment on my Substack and had no idea if I'd seen it, because I hadn't told them how I check for those.
Where to find ideas, beyond hanging out with your audience the way Glenn does: Google Alerts will tell you anytime a topic (or your name) gets mentioned online. Answer the Public shows you what people are actually typing into search around a topic. Or just Google your topic and scroll down to "People Also Ask."
On Podcast Movement: I wasn't selected to speak this year, which is the first time that's happened after speaking at every single one. Disappointing, sure, but I'll still be there to say hi, and I'll have more free time than usual. I am speaking at the Empowered Podcasting Conference in Charlotte, NC, and at PodIndy in November.
Lesson...

If you look at movies that you love, and you think about them, and you remember how they made you feel. Today we talk about three things you can have in your tool belt to use in your show to not just have something to listen to, but to have content that moves your audience. We also answer the question what do Sportcasters, Movie Reviewers, and Christians all have in common?
Pull Some Emotion Into Your Show
Most podcasters focus on information—tips, tactics, and how‑tos. But your audience doesn’t connect to information first; they connect to emotion first.
Three Tools To Boost Connection
Nostalgia
Storytelling
Vulnerability

As the old saying goes, "with great power comes great responsibility," so how do we use these ingredients in our show without sounding like we starting the sympathy engine just to grab attention?
What Do Christians, Movie Reviewer, and Sportscasters all have in common?
They are all working with the same source material. The same bible (more or less), the same movies, the same games. In this episode we talk about how to make your show stand out?
The Best Book on StoryTelling
I've read MANY books on storytelling, but Storyworthy by Matthew Dicks is the best - period. The audiobook is so good you will want to listen with a pad and pencil to take notes (or if you're loving in 2026, take notes on your phone).
Ready To Start Your Podcast?
Podcasting in Six Weeks
Mentioned in this episode:
Live Appearances
I love to meet people when I'm on the road. I'm going to be at
Empowered Podcasting Conference in Charlotte NC
Podcast Movement in NYC
Podindy in Indianapolis In.
For more information and links, go to schoolofpodcasting.com/where
To have me speak at your event, reach out at schoolofpodcasting.com/contacnt
Where Will I Be?
Question of the Month: The Smallest Amount of Downloads
We all want a bigger audience. We all put a lot of work into our shows. With this in mind, what is the smallest amount of downloads you would do the show for? If it drops below a number would you stop, or put effort into finding out why?
Does the size of your audience matter?
Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/question by August 28th (and don't forget to say a little bit about your show and your website address so I can link to it in the notes)
School of Podcasting
Take Live Classes at the School of Podcasting
Podcasting in Six Weeks is BACK! (and this time it's free!)
We are continuing to experiment with marketing, and we had so much fun helping people launch their show that we are going it again (and dropped the fee). If you don't have a show but want to start one this is THE place to get going in the right direction.
Go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/sixweeks

Growing Your Podcast Live Course
For members of the School of Podcasting we are all banding together to go through the steps of growing your show (so sign up now!). This will including feedback and strategies to get your show growing faster. You will write down your typical downloads before you start, and compare it to the final numbers. Use the coupon code listener when singing up to become a member and receive a discount.

These live classes start August 19th. Please let me know if you have any questions at schoolofpodcasting.com/contact
School of Podcasting

What if one book could change the way you tell stories, connect with your audience, or even see your own podcast? In this episode of the School of Podcasting, I asked a simple question: “If you found out someone was a content creator, what book would you recommend?” — and the responses were pure gold.
You’ll hear from working podcasters, educators, business owners, and storytellers sharing the books that sharpened their craft, grew their communities, and kept them going when numbers and algorithms tried to wear them down. Along the way, I share my own must‑reads and pay tribute to a podcasting legend whose work shaped an entire generation of creators. If you’re ready to level up your show — not with more gear, but with better thinking, storytelling, and heart — this is the episode you’ll want to queue up next.
Participants
Kim Newlove
The Pharmacist Voice Podcast
The Perrysburg Podcast
Ralph Estep Jr.
The Content Creators Accountant
https://ralphestepjr.com
Chris Nessi
House of EdTech
Mark Lawley
Practical Prepping Podcast
Nancy May (with co‑host Sylvia France)
Family Tree Food Stories Podcast
Dave Cohen
The Shakespeare Mindset
Tom Haley
Bluegrass Region Voices and Views
Books Mentioned
Find Your Red Thread: Make Your Big Ideas - Tamsen Webster
The Audience Is Listening: A Little Guide to Building a Big Podcast – Tom Webster
How to Win Friends and Influence People - Dale Carnegie
Sacred Cows Make the Best Burgers – Robert J. Kriegel, David Brandt
12 and a Half: Leveraging the Emotional Ingredients Necessary for Business Success – Gary Vaynerchuk
Acres of Diamonds – Jentezen Franklin
Hello, My Name Is Awesome: How to Create Brand Names That Stick – Alexandra Watkins
Into the Woods: A Five-Act Journey Into Story – John Yorke
Build a Strong Podcast: From Creation to Captivated Audience – Jennifer Longworth
Make Noise: A Creator’s Guide to Podcasting and Great Audio Storytelling – Eric Nuzum
Storyworthy: Engage, Teach, Persuade, and Change Your Life Through the Power of Storytelling – Matthew Dicks
Platform: Get Noticed in a Noisy World – A Step-by-Step Guide for Anyone with Something to Say or Sell – Michael Hyatt
Big Podcast: Grow Your Podcast Audience, Build Listener Loyalty, and Get Everybody Talking About Your Show – David Hooper
So You Want to Start a Podcast: Finding Your Voice, Telling Your Story, and Building a Community That Will Listen – Kristen Meinzer
Out on the Wire: The Storytelling Secrets of the New Masters of Radio – Jessica Abel
Beyond Powerful Radio: A Communicator’s Guide to the Internet Age – Valerie Geller
Secrets of Dynamic Communication: Prepare with Focus, Deliver with Clarity, Speak with Power – Ken Davis
Sponsor Magnet – Justin Moore
Profit from Your Podcast: Turn Your Listeners into a Livelihood – Dave Jackson
Looking for more books on podcasting? Check here
In Honor of John C. Dvorak
The Grief Recovery Handbook: The Action Program for Moving Beyond Death, Divorce, and Other Losses (20th Anniversary Expanded Edition) – John W. James, Russell Friedman
John was an amazing broadcaster. More thoughts on John's Impact.
Mentioned in this episode:
Build the Website You Want with Podpage
Podpage is flexible. If you want to promote something you can put it in the sidebar, on the front page, or at the bottom of every episode (not to mention the navigation bar, the footer and more). Podpage is designed specifically for podcasts. Quit trying to squeeze your podcast into a website made for a yoga studio. Start your free trial at podpage.com/preview
Podpage
Take Live Classes at the School of Podcasting
Podcasting in Six Weeks is BACK! (and this time it's free!)
We are continuing to experiment with marketing, and we had so much fun helping people launch their show that we are going it again (and dropped the fee). If you don't have a show but want to start one this is THE place to get going in the right direction.
Go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/sixweeks

Growing Your Podcast Live Course
For members of the School of Podcasting we are all banding together to go through the steps of growing your show (so sign up now!). This will including feedback and strategies to get your show growing faster. You will write down your typical downloads before you start, and compare it to the final numbers. Use the coupon code listener when singing up to become a member and receive a discount.

These live classes start August 19th. Please let me know if you have any questions at schoolofpodcasting.com/contact
School of Podcasting
Question of the Month: The Smallest Amount of Downloads
We all want a bigger audience. We all put a lot of work into our shows. With this in mind, what is the smallest amount of downloads you would do the show for? If it drops below a number would you stop, or put effort into finding out why?
Does the size of your audience matter?
Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/question by August 28th (and don't forget to say a little bit about your show and your website address so I can link to it in the notes)
School of Podcasting
Live Appearances
I love to meet people when I'm on the road. I'm going to be at
Empowered Podcasting Conference in Charlotte NC
Podcast Movement in NYC
Podindy in Indianapolis In.
For more information and links, go to schoolofpodcasting.com/where
To have me speak at your event, reach out at schoolofpodcasting.com/contacnt
Where Will I Be?

When your CPMs start shrinking and programmatic ads feel like a losing game, it’s easy to wonder if podcasting is still worth it. In this episode, I want to show you a different path—one that doesn’t depend on ad tech behaving itself. I’m going to walk you through why community beats downloads, how smart feedback (like what Jack Rhysider does) can radically improve your show before it ever launches, and how simple tools like newsletters and Podpage can help you build a deeper relationship with your audience so your podcast is future‑proof, no matter what happens to ad rates.
Don't Take My Word For It
I heard it from on the Podbiz Show. Hall of Famer Leo Laporte shares a bit of history with ads, and Podfather Adam Curry explains how to future-proof your podcast. Brian Barletta explains how we need to move on from trying to get stats that are not possible, and focus on growing the industry.
Get Your Head Straight
I also talk about how I was inspired by writer Talyor Sheridan cold care less about the critics. He write the way he wants to write, about what he wants to write about and now his audience has found him and he is making a killing.
Get Your Content Straight
Geddy Lee has been performing in the band Rush for 50+ years and yet he still takes time to evaluate his playing. When we try to market "Meh" content we are wasting our time.
The Podcast Atlas Report
Sounds Profitable has released the Podcast Atlas Report which approaches the industry from the creators point of view. Some great insights into clips, newsletters, and more.
This content may contain affiliate links, meaning I earn a small commission if you purchase through these links at no additional cost to you. I only recommend products or services I trust and believe will provide value to you. Thank you for your support!
Takeaways:
If you're feeling stuck with your podcast due to falling ad revenues, listen up!
Forget chasing ad dollars; focus on building a loyal community that supports your podcasting journey.
The real gold in podcasting isn’t just downloads; it’s about creating genuine connections with your listeners.
Ads might be declining, but trust me, building a community will make your podcast thrive in the long run.
The future of podcasting is all about community and trust, not just numbers on a screen.
If you want to grow your podcast, start by picking one simple thing to engage with your audience.

Also Mentioned:
Sponsor Magnet Book
Podpage - Podcast Website Builder
Ray Arnott Interview - Around the Layout
Community Resources
Heartbeat (We use this for the School of Podcasting)
Circle
Skool (affordable, simple community)
Newsletter Tools
Kit (formerly Convertkit)
Mailerlite
Beehiiv
(and many more)
Mentioned in this episode:
Question of the Month: The Smallest Amount of Downloads
We all want a bigger audience. We all put a lot of work into our shows. With this in mind, what is the smallest amount of downloads you would do the show for? If it drops below a number would you stop, or put effort into finding out why?
Does the size of your audience matter?
Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/question by August 28th (and don't forget to say a little bit about your show and your website address so I can link to it in the notes)
School of Podcasting
Live Appearances
I love to meet people when I'm on the road. I'm going to be at
Empowered Podcasting Conference in Charlotte NC
Podcast Movement in NYC
Podindy in Indianapolis In.
For more information and links, go to schoolofpodcasting.com/where
To have me speak at your event, reach out at schoolofpodcasting.com/contacnt
Where Will I Be?
Unlock Exclusive Insights: Subscribe to 'Podcasting Observations' Newsletter!
Get a look into the world of podcasting like never before with "Podcasting Observations," your go-to source for trends, tips, and transformative insights tailored just for podcasters. You also get "behind the scenes" info from the School of Podcasting

Don't miss out on staying ahead of the game—join the 1700+ people who are already reading Podcasting Observations today!
Podcasting Observations
Take Live Classes at the School of Podcasting
Podcasting in Six Weeks is BACK! (and this time it's free!)
We are continuing to experiment with marketing, and we had so much fun helping people launch their show that we are going it again (and dropped the fee). If you don't have a show but want to start one this is THE place to get going in the right direction.
Go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/sixweeks

Growing Your Podcast Live Course
For members of the School of Podcasting we are all banding together to go through the steps of growing your show (so sign up now!). This will including feedback and strategies to get your show growing faster. You will write down your typical downloads before you start, and compare it to the final numbers. Use the coupon code listener when singing up to become a member and receive a discount.

These live classes start August 19th. Please let me know if you have any questions at schoolofpodcasting.com/contact
School of Podcasting

If you’ve ever thought, ‘I want feedback, but I’m terrified of the internet,’ stay tuned—I’ll show you how to get useful criticism without letting trolls live rent-free in your head.
Two Types of Feedback
I’m sharing how I handle trolls, reviews, and feedback—and how you can turn all of that into fuel to grow your show instead of reasons to quit. I’ll walk you through when to ignore, when to engage, and how to build a trusted focus group that helps you make your podcast better without letting anonymous strangers live rent‑free in your head.
Trolls, Critics and Focus Groups
I break down the difference between true trolls, genuine critics, and helpful focus groups—and how each one fits (or doesn’t) into your growth as a podcaster. I share real stories about nitpicky typo trolls, cyberbullying from years ago, people who send you two and a half pages of “do a different show,” and how other podcasters are using their audience—and even Snapchat—to get honest, constructive criticism.
By the end, you’ll see why I say feedback is the “breakfast of champions,” and why your fear of judgment shouldn’t keep your show stuck on your hard drive.
What You’ll Learn
Trolls vs. Focus Groups
How I define a troll: unsolicited, emotionally charged feedback that’s mostly about getting a reaction.
How I define a focus group: people who actually want to help shape and improve your show.
Why some “trolls” are really just frustrated fans who want attention.

Classic Troll Bait Topics
The three topics that almost guarantee you’ll attract trolls:
Politics
News / current events
Religion
Why I’m okay with pushback when I brush up against these—and why you should expect it if your show leans into them.

My Rules for Dealing with Trolls
Rule #1: Don’t feed the trolls.
I talk about why I always try to wait before responding.
How I “kill them with kindness” when I choose to reply.
Why I often simply say, “Thanks for the feedback,” and move on.
How I remind myself that sometimes people are just having a bad day, and I happened to be standing in front of them.

Turning Feedback into a Tool for Growth
The key question I always ask: “Do they have a point?”
An example: being told, “You interrupt your guests too much,” and how I go back, listen, and honestly assess if they’re right.
How I respond when someone clearly just wants me to do a completely different show than the one I want to make.

How I Engage Without Losing My Cool
Why I sometimes ask, “How could I have done this better?” to separate useful advice from empty criticism.
How I ask for evidence or sources in a non-defensive way:
“I’m interested in digging into this—can you share a link?”
When I’ll share my sources and politely stand my ground.
When I decide it’s time to block, report, and move on, especially on platforms like YouTube.

Knowing My Audience (and My Why)
How knowing who my show is for makes it easier to ignore the wrong people.
Why I consider the nastiest haters as “not my target audience.”
The math I look at: out of hundreds of reviews, only a tiny percentage are negative—but they love to hog my attention if I let them.

Stories and Examples I Share
Mark Maron on Trolls as “Frustrated Love”
A clip from Mark Maron talking about trolls who keep coming back.
How he describes repeat trolls as people who are weirdly in love with you and just want you to get mad so they feel seen.

The Typo Troll
The listener who went absolutely ballistic over typos and sent me 5–6 paragraph rants.
How I handled it when the comments got personal.
How I eventually “trolled the troll” with humor and kindness and watched him disappear (and reappear…and disappear again).

Madame Strangeways & Fear of Feedback
A conversation with Madame Strangeways who was reluctant to ask for feedback because of a cyberbullying incident 20 years ago.
How I encourage her (and you) to start with trusted fans and patrons as a safe focus group.
My “too much salt in the bread” analogy: people who love what you’re making will still tell you if something’s off, because they have to consume it.

Jr. Sparrow & Building a Focus Group
How Jr. Sparrow used Snapchat’s Snap Map to find brutally honest listeners.
How he turned “this show is crap” comments into a small group that now:
Helps him curate which episodes to release.
Shapes themes and content months in advance.
Why he says you need “skin like Shrek” (thick skin, many layers) if you want to attach dollar signs to your show.

Using Feedback Before You Publish
How experienced podcasters (including me) use feedback on topics, guests, and angles before episodes ever hit the feed.
Why I’d rather kill an episode early than spend years promoting something that doesn’t resonate with my audience.

SnapChat's Snap Map Feature
Snapchat’s Snap Maps
https://youtu.be/l4R-wu42gZk?si=BVhAiDeB_Tq6anoO
Getting Data From Snap Map
https://youtu.be/qGxblSXvEbU?si=KoeDP8aI32uKvKjS
My Key Takeaways for You
You are already being judged—at Home Depot, in the grocery line, everywhere—so a few online comments shouldn’t paralyze you.
A tiny slice of reviews will be negative; they don’t outweigh the huge percentage of people who get value from your show.
Feedback is how you get better. You can’t fix what you don’t know is broken.
Learn to separate:
Trolls – don’t feed them, or reply calmly and briefly.
Constructive critics – look for the truth in what they’re saying.
True fans / focus groups – invite them in and let them help you refine the show.
If someone hates your show and clearly isn’t who you’re trying to reach, there’s a simple name for them: not your audience.

Mentioned in This Episode
School of Podcasting – Where I help you plan, launch, and grow your podcast, including listener parties to get safe, constructive feedback.
Ask the Podcast Coach – My live call-in/chat show for free podcast consulting.
Podpage – Website platform for podcasters (I’m the Head of Podcasting there).
Madame Strangeways – True strange stories at madamestrangeways.com.
Jr. Sparrow – WVU Uncommon Place – Society and culture in West Virginia.

Call to Action
Tell me what you think:
Let me know one thing you love and one thing you’d change about this show at schoolofpodcasting.com/contact or schoolofpodcasting.com/voicemail.
Need help with your podcast?
If you want a safe place to get honest feedback and improve your show, join me at SchoolOfPodcasting.com and use the coupon code LISTENER for a discount. It comes with a 30‑day money‑back guarantee.

Mentioned in this episode:
Give Your Podcast A Home
When you look at our podcasting pieces, your media host is the engine. But your website is the home.
It’s where your audience learns who you are, explores your episodes, and decides to subscribe.
At Podpage, we build podcast websites that are fast, reliable, and designed to convert visitors into listeners. Every episode is automatically published, SEO-optimized, and structured for growth—so you can focus on creating, not managing your site.
If your media host powers your podcast, Podpage gives it a place to live—and a place to grow.

Start building your podcast’s home with Podpage by going to www.podpage.com/preview and start your 14 day free trial today.