AI Real Talk: The Curiosity Connection

In this episode, Matthew sits down with Merissa Sadler-Holder, founder of Teaching with Machines and the person he credits as a catalyst in his career. They dig into what it really takes to bring AI into schools—from building student-facing AI literacy curricula to navigating the resistance, fear, and identity shifts educators face. Along the way, they explore AI as a mirror of what we value, why we're shifting from paying for time to paying for expertise, and how teachers with zero coding experience are building interactive games in minutes. It's a conversation about curiosity, change management, and why your expertise matters more now—not less.
In this conversation:
The critical distinction between AI literacy and AI fluency—and why students are skipping the foundation
How Merissa co-designed an AI curriculum with students at an alternative ed school (and what happened when lessons completely flopped)
A historical analogy that reframes the entire AI-and-creativity debate
Why a consulting client pushed back on paying full price when AI made the work faster—and what that means for the future of your expertise
Teachers vibe coding interactive games on day one with zero prior training
A 45-minute parking lot conversation that reveals what AI resistance is really about
Video Chapters:
0:00 — Introduction & Meeting Merissa
2:49 — Teaching with Machines Today
3:55 — AI Literacy vs. AI Fluency
6:17 — Social Media Lessons & Critical Thinking
9:41 — Building an AI Curriculum with Students
20:38 — AI, Art, and Creativity
27:06 — Paying for Expertise, Not Just Time
29:09 — Vibe Coding & Empowering Teachers
32:23 — Light Bulb Moments
39:11 — Navigating Change & Resisting Optimization
50:48 — Closing Thoughts & What's Next
Connect with us: 
Merissa Sadler-Holder (LinkedIn)
Matthew Karabinos (LinkedIn)
Teaching with Machines

(00:00) - Introduction & Meeting Merissa

(02:49) - Teaching with Machines Today

(03:55) - AI Literacy vs. AI Fluency

(06:17) - Social Media Lessons & Critical Thinking

(09:41) - Building an AI Curriculum with Students

(20:38) - AI, Art, and Creativity

(27:06) - Paying for Expertise, Not Just Time

(29:09) - Vibe Coding & Empowering Teachers

(32:23) - Light Bulb Moments

(39:11) - Navigating Change & Resisting Optimization

(50:48) - Closing Thoughts & What's Next

We’re thrilled to be sponsored by Renaissance and IXL.
Learn more about Renaissance:
 
As a global leader in education technology operating in more than 110 countries, Renaissance is committed to providing educators with insights and resources to accelerate growth and help all students build a strong foundation for success. We believe that technology can unlock a more effective learning experience, ensure that students get the personalized teaching they need to thrive, and help educators and administrators to truly, fully, See Every Student. Learn more at renaissance.com.

IXL’s comprehensive teaching and learning platform for math, language arts, science, and social studies is accelerating achievement in 95 of the top 100 U.S. school districts. Loved by teachers and backed by independent research from Johns Hopkins University, IXL can help you do the following and more:
Simplify and streamline technology
Save teachers’ time
Reliably meet Tier 1 standards
Improve student performance on state assessments
🚀 Ready to see why leading districts trust IXL for their educational needs? Visit IXL.com/BE today to learn more about how IXL can elevate your school or district.

Matt sits down with Stewart Brown, from Code for Kids (c4k.io), to dig into why so many schools are unprepared to teach AI literacy and computer science—and what it actually takes to build a foundation that sticks. From debunking the myth that CS doesn't belong in every district to rethinking what "expert in the room" even means for teachers, this conversation goes way deeper than tech tools. It's about curiosity, vulnerability, and what gets lost when we let AI do too much of the thinking for us. 
Timestamps: 
2:43 | The real gap in K-8 schools: why computer science often doesn't exist as a real subject
15:12 | Stewart's no-BS way of explaining AI: "It's a machine brain."
18:07 | Matthew's viral hallucination analogy — what your breakfast 20 years ago has to do with AI
19:38 | Unpacking "future-ready education" — and why it's more than a buzzword
21:54 | The mindset shift every teacher needs before stepping into an AI-driven classroom
30:56 | A college classroom story that changed how Matthew thinks about teaching
35:09 | How Code for Kids actually started — an origin story with a wild twist
40:23 | What happens to classroom engagement when teachers admit they don't know everything
47:48 | Stewart gets curious: the big open questions driving his work
51:49 | The one thing about AI that fascinates (and unsettles) everyone in the field
57:28 | Where to find Stewart and Code for Kids

We’re thrilled to be sponsored by Renaissance and IXL.
Learn more about Renaissance:
 
As a global leader in education technology operating in more than 110 countries, Renaissance is committed to providing educators with insights and resources to accelerate growth and help all students build a strong foundation for success. We believe that technology can unlock a more effective learning experience, ensure that students get the personalized teaching they need to thrive, and help educators and administrators to truly, fully, See Every Student. Learn more at renaissance.com.

IXL’s comprehensive teaching and learning platform for math, language arts, science, and social studies is accelerating achievement in 95 of the top 100 U.S. school districts. Loved by teachers and backed by independent research from Johns Hopkins University, IXL can help you do the following and more:
Simplify and streamline technology
Save teachers’ time
Reliably meet Tier 1 standards
Improve student performance on state assessments
🚀 Ready to see why leading districts trust IXL for their educational needs? Visit IXL.com/BE today to learn more about how IXL can elevate your school or district.

What if curiosity, not content, is the most important skill we can teach kids? In this episode of Real Talk: The Curiosity Connection, host Matt Karabinos sits down with Amirah Cummings, founder of KIO (Kids in Orbit), to explore how AI is unlimiting education, why the traditional school system is 100% obsolete, and what it truly means to become a self-driven learner.
Amirah is a former software engineer turned educator whose work spans multilingual Montessori schooling, mission-based learning, and an entire ecosystem designed to turn kids into "Kionauts"—curious, compassionate explorers of Earth and the cosmos. 
At a time when AI is "making learning infinite" and "unlimiting" students' potential, the real mission of education comes into question. Listen to the whole episode for some memorable hot takes about education and what we can do instead. 
In this episode, you'll learn:
Why curiosity disappears around 3rd grade, and what we can do about it
How AI makes learning infinite (and what that really means for classrooms)
Why Amirah believes the traditional education system is 100% dead
The difference between motivated learners and self-driven learners
How mission-based learning replaces outdated standards and metrics
Why millennials are uniquely positioned to lead the future of education
What "the new literacy" really looks like in an AI-powered world
How to develop curiosity in kids — and adults — starting with one question: "Why?"

Connect with Amirah Cummings:
Amirah Cummings's LinkedIn
KIO Learning
Kionaut
Connect with Matt & the Show:
Show: AI Real Talk: The Curiosity Connection
Matt Karabinos' LinkedIn

(00:00) - Introduction

(00:57) - KIO: Kids in Orbit

(02:02) - The Origin of KIO

(07:49) - AI and Infinite Learning

(15:36) - Rethinking Education

(16:12) - Amirah's Personal Journey

(23:14) - Student-Centered Learning & AI

(35:50) - The Future of Education & AI

(42:50) - Developing Curiosity

(59:21) - Closing: What Are You Most Curious About?

We’re thrilled to be sponsored by Renaissance and IXL.
Learn more about Renaissance:
 
As a global leader in education technology operating in more than 110 countries, Renaissance is committed to providing educators with insights and resources to accelerate growth and help all students build a strong foundation for success. We believe that technology can unlock a more effective learning experience, ensure that students get the personalized teaching they need to thrive, and help educators and administrators to truly, fully, See Every Student. Learn more at renaissance.com.

IXL’s comprehensive teaching and learning platform for math, language arts, science, and social studies is accelerating achievement in 95 of the top 100 U.S. school districts. Loved by teachers and backed by independent research from Johns Hopkins University, IXL can help you do the following and more:
Simplify and streamline technology
Save teachers’ time
Reliably meet Tier 1 standards
Improve student performance on state assessments
🚀 Ready to see why leading districts trust IXL for their educational needs? Visit IXL.com/BE today to learn more about how IXL can elevate your school or district.

In this episode recorded at ISTE 2026, Jethro Jones talks with Mike Lawrence. Mike shares how his school district built a culture of AI transparency using disclosure badges instead of bans, why teachers need to model the same openness they expect from students, and what's next as schools cautiously explore AI agents.

We’re thrilled to be sponsored by Renaissance and IXL.
Learn more about Renaissance:
 
As a global leader in education technology operating in more than 110 countries, Renaissance is committed to providing educators with insights and resources to accelerate growth and help all students build a strong foundation for success. We believe that technology can unlock a more effective learning experience, ensure that students get the personalized teaching they need to thrive, and help educators and administrators to truly, fully, See Every Student. Learn more at renaissance.com.

IXL’s comprehensive teaching and learning platform for math, language arts, science, and social studies is accelerating achievement in 95 of the top 100 U.S. school districts. Loved by teachers and backed by independent research from Johns Hopkins University, IXL can help you do the following and more:
Simplify and streamline technology
Save teachers’ time
Reliably meet Tier 1 standards
Improve student performance on state assessments
🚀 Ready to see why leading districts trust IXL for their educational needs? Visit IXL.com/BE today to learn more about how IXL can elevate your school or district.

Building Friction, Autonomy, and Design with AI | Doan Winkel
What if the best thing AI can do for students is refuse to help them? Matt sits down with entrepreneur and educator Doan Winkel to dig into why "helpful AI" might be the worst thing to happen to learning and what to do instead.

In this episode:
The philosophy behind AI Friction Labs and why deliberately frustrating students might be the most effective teaching tool yet
Why Doan thinks the "easy button" problem isn't really an AI problem
The ungrading experiment that revealed something startling: students aren't cheating at teachers. Teachers never even cross their minds.
How one small prompt change turned a skeptical lawyer into an AI evangelist overnight
Why the most resistant person in the room might be exactly who you need on your AI committee
The inertia problem: education hasn't fundamentally changed in decades. Will AI finally be the thing that breaks it?
Doan's take on student autonomy, and the uncomfortable question he ends with that has no clean answer

Chapters:
0:00 Introduction & Guest Welcome
1:04 What Is AI Friction Labs?
5:01 The Sparring Partner Concept & Mike Kentz
5:43 Student Autonomy vs. the Easy Button
7:39 The Ungrading Experiment & AI Cheating Reality
14:54 Teacher Risk-Taking & Finding the Opening
15:56 AI in Rural Schools & Learning from Others' Mistakes
25:08 Designing Learning Experiences with AI
31:55 Bandwidth, Training & Building Champions
41:02 Curiosities: Breaking the Inertia of Education
44:33 Outro & Where to Find Doan

Find Doan:
LinkedIn 
Newsletter: How to Teach AI on Substack (free, weekly, practical)
Website: doanwinkel.com

(00:00) - Introduction & Guest Welcome

(01:03) - What Is AI Friction Labs?

(05:01) - The Sparring Partner Concept & Mike Kentz

(05:43) - Student Autonomy vs. Easy Button AI

(07:39) - The Ungrading Experiment & AI Cheating Reality

(14:54) - Teacher Risk-Taking & Finding the Opening

(15:56) - AI in Rural Schools & Watching Others Learn from Mistakes

(25:08) - Designing Learning Experiences with AI

(31:55) - Bandwidth, Training & Building Champions

(41:02) - Curiosities: Breaking the Inertia of Education

(44:33) - Outro & Where to Find Doan

We’re thrilled to be sponsored by Renaissance and IXL.
Learn more about Renaissance:
 
As a global leader in education technology operating in more than 110 countries, Renaissance is committed to providing educators with insights and resources to accelerate growth and help all students build a strong foundation for success. We believe that technology can unlock a more effective learning experience, ensure that students get the personalized teaching they need to thrive, and help educators and administrators to truly, fully, See Every Student. Learn more at renaissance.com.

IXL’s comprehensive teaching and learning platform for math, language arts, science, and social studies is accelerating achievement in 95 of the top 100 U.S. school districts. Loved by teachers and backed by independent research from Johns Hopkins University, IXL can help you do the following and more:
Simplify and streamline technology
Save teachers’ time
Reliably meet Tier 1 standards
Improve student performance on state assessments
🚀 Ready to see why leading districts trust IXL for their educational needs? Visit IXL.com/BE today to learn more about how IXL can elevate your school or district.