Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth

• The one question that saves product careers | Matt LeMay

  Matt LeMay spent 13 years as a music critic at Pitchfork before becoming one of product management’s most influential voices. He’s consulted with companies from startups to Fortune 500s and authored two essential PM books, including Impact-First Product Teams. After watching countless product teams get laid off despite “doing everything right,” he discovered a harsh truth: most PMs are optimizing for the wrong things.In this conversation, you’ll learn:1. The one question that predicts if your team will survive the next layoffs (and why most teams can’t answer it)2. Why following product “best practices” perfectly can actually accelerate your path to unemployment3. The “low-impact PM death spiral”—how teams accidentally make themselves irrelevant4. How to push back on executives without saying “no” (the options, plus a recommendation framework)5. The counterintuitive reason why the happiest PMs are also the most commercially minded6. The Liz Phair review that made Matt an internet villain for 22 years—and what it taught him about product management—Brought to you by:Enterpret—Transform customer feedback into product growth: https://enterpret.com/lennyPragmatic Institute—Industry‑recognized product, marketing, and AI training & certifications: https://pragmaticinstitute.com/lennyClaude.ai—The AI for problem solvers and enterprise: http://claude.ai/—Transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-one-question-that-saves-product-careers-matt-lemay—My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/168109376/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation—Where to find Matt LeMay:• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mttlmy• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattlemay/• Website: https://mattlemay.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Matt LeMay(04:23) Matt’s background and transition to product management(06:47) The goal of Matt's new book(12:00) How to stress test your thinking as a PM(15:32) Thinking like the CEO(17:33) The role of a product manager(23:36) The low-impact PM death spiral(27:47) Case study: Mailchimp’s transition to a platform company(32:53) Radical acceptance(41:24) Embracing constraints in product management(44:23) Steps to become an impact-first product team(49:38) Setting effective goals(01:02:15) Prioritization and impact estimation(01:07:58) Navigating stakeholder management(01:12:35) Summarizing the 3 steps(01:16:36) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• Pitchfork: https://pitchfork.com/• Daniel Ek’s memo: https://newsroom.spotify.com/2023-12-04/an-update-on-december-2023-organizational-changes/• How to create a winning product strategy | Melissa Perri: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-create-a-winning-product-strategy• Everything you’ve ever wanted to know about SAFe and the product owner role | Melissa Perri (author, founder of Product Institute): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/product-owners-melissa-perri• Mailchimp: https://mailchimp.com/• Intuit: https://www.intuit.com/• Natalia Williams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nataliatwilliams/• The ultimate guide to OKRs | Christina Wodtke (Stanford): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-okrs-christina• Miro: https://miro.com/• Prioritizing: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/prioritizing• Temptation Island on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81744518• Mark L. Walberg’s website: https://markwalbergtv.com/about• Antiques Roadshow on PBS: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/• Milkman amp: https://milkmansound.com/collections/amplifiers/products/the-amp• Matt’s review of Liz Phair’s self-titled album: https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/6255-liz-phair/• Pitchfork Critic Apologizes for Bashing Liz Phair Album; Singer Graciously Accepts: https://variety.com/2019/music/news/pitchfork-critic-apologizes-liz-phair-album-review-zero-score-1203326897/• RedMonk: https://redmonk.com/—Recommended books:• Product Management in Practice: A Practical, Tactical Guide for Your First Day and Every Day After: https://www.amazon.com/Product-Management-Practice-Practical-Tactical/dp/1098119738/r• Impact-First Product Teams: Define Success. Do Work That Matters. Be Indispensable.: https://www.amazon.com/Impact-first-Product-Teams-Success-Indispensable/dp/B0DVH4R3QJ• Escaping the Build Trap: How Effective Product Management Creates Real Value: https://www.amazon.com/Escaping-Build-Trap-Effective-Management/dp/B08B46C8R1/• Radical Focus: Achieving Your Most Important Goals with Objectives and Key Results: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Focus-Achieving-Important-Objectives/dp/0996006028• The Wisdom of Insecurity: A Message for an Age of Anxiety: https://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-Insecurity-Message-Age-Anxiety/dp/0307741206/—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected] may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

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• Inside ChatGPT: The fastest growing product in history | Nick Turley (Head of ChatGPT at OpenAI)

  Nick Turley is Head of ChatGPT, the fastest-growing product in history, with 700 million weekly active users (10% of the world’s population). He was part of the original hackathon team that shipped ChatGPT in just 10 days, helped it grow from zero to billions in revenue, and leads product for what may be the most consequential product of our time. We recorded this the day before GPT-5 launched.We discuss:1. The 10-day sprint from deciding to ship ChatGPT to Sam Altman’s tweet (and why it was originally called “Chat with GPT-3.5”)2. How they ran a willingness-to-pay Van Westendorp survey in their Discord to decide on the $20/month price point that everyone copied3. The “Is it maximally accelerated?” philosophy that drives OpenAI’s insane shipping velocity4. Why ChatGPT’s retention curve “smiles”—users leave, then come back months later using it more5. The accidental decisions that changed history, including not having a waitlist6. The impact ChatGPT will have on SEO and product growth7. The counterintuitive reason why shipping unpolished AI features beats waiting for perfection8. Why ChatGPT intentionally shipped with that “ugly” model-chooser dropdown9. How TikTok comments became a primary user research channel early on—Brought to you by:Orkes—The enterprise platform for reliable applications and agentic workflows: https://www.orkes.io/Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lennyPostHog—How developers build successful products: https://posthog.com/lenny—Transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-chatgpt-nick-turley—My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/170411252/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation—Where to find Nick Turley• X: https://x.com/nickaturley• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicholasturley/• Website: https://nickturley.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Nick Turley(04:52) GPT-5 launch(09:13) The vision for ChatGPT and AI assistants(13:52) The early days of ChatGPT(17:14) The success and impact of ChatGPT(20:44) Product development and iteration(23:11) Maximally accelerated: the OpenAI approach(26:17) Retention and user engagement(33:42) The future of chat interfaces(36:31) The evolution of ChatGPT(38:52) Subscription model and pricing strategies(42:10) Enterprise adoption and challenges(44:10) Balancing multiple product lines(52:13) Emergent use cases and user feedback(01:02:15) OpenAI’s unique product development approach(01:05:07) The importance of team composition(01:08:50) Balancing speed and quality in AI development(01:14:23) The role of evals in product development(01:16:13) The future of AI-driven content and GPTs(01:21:51) Philosophy and product leadership(01:23:47) Career journey and advice(01:27:49) Lightning round and final thoughts—References: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-chatgpt-nick-turley—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected] may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

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• Brian Chesky's secret mentor who died 9 times, started the Burning Man board, and built the world's first midlife wisdom school | Chip Conley (founder of MEA)

  Chip Conley is the founder of Joie de Vivre hotels, the second-largest boutique hotel brand in the world. At age 52, he joined Airbnb as Head of Global Hospitality and Strategy, reporting to CEO Brian Chesky, who was 21 years younger. He earned the title of Airbnb’s “Modern Elder” by guiding the young founders on leadership and culture while learning Silicon Valley’s tech mindset himself. Today, Chip leads the Modern Elder Academy, the world’s first midlife wisdom school, and is the author of best-selling books like Wisdom@Work and Peak. He champions the idea that age and experience are assets—and that midlife can be a launchpad for renewed purpose and impact.In this conversation, we discuss:1. The reality of Brian Chesky in “founder mode”—the good, bad, and stressful2. How Chip went from running 52 boutique hotels to becoming Airbnb’s in-house mentor in his 50s3. The “mentor and intern” mindset: how to simultaneously teach others and stay curious like a beginner4. Why AI might actually favor older workers (hint: human wisdom vs. artificial intelligence)5. His framework for navigating midlife transitions and finding meaning after 406. Specific tactics for older professionals to thrive in tech companies7. Surprising data that midlife is often the happiest time of life—and how to leverage your 40s, 50s, and beyond8. Chip’s formula for managing anxiety and fear (and how to regain control when worry strikes)—Brought to you by:Great Question—Empower everyone to run great research: https://www.greatquestion.com/lennyVanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lennyCoda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace: https://coda.io/lenny—Transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/chip-conley —My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/168435278/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation—Where to find Chip Conley:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chipconleysf/• Website: https://chipconley.com/• Modern Elder Academy: https://www.meawisdom.com/• Podcast: https://www.meawisdom.com/podcast/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Chip Conley(04:09) Chip’s journey with Airbnb(10:35) Insights on working with Brian Chesky(19:56) The value of intergenerational collaboration(25:57) Addressing ageism in tech(41:33) Chip’s early career and founding Joie de Vivre(43:54) A life-changing near-death experience(46:39) The importance of company culture(55:57) The Modern Elder Academy(59:21) The upside of aging(01:06:53) AI in daily life(01:09:14) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• Brian Chesky on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianchesky/• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach• Natalie Tucci on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalietuccishoff/• Laura Modi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurahughes6/• How to build a cult-like brand | Laura Modi (Bobbie): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/from-growth-to-slowth-the-making• George Tenet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Tenet• Joie de Vivre Hospitality: https://www.hyatt.com/jdv-by-hyatt/en-US• Fest300: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fest300• John Q. Smith on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnqsmith/•Will A.I. Replace New Hires or Middle Managers?: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/07/business/ai-job-cuts.html• Burning Man: https://burningman.org/• Sheryl Sandberg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheryl-sandberg-5126652/• Bill Graham: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Graham_(promoter)• Maslow’s hierarchy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs• Measuring what makes life worthwhile: https://www.ted.com/talks/chip_conley_measuring_what_makes_life_worthwhile• Jonathan Mildenhall on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mildenhall/• Becca Levy’s website: https://becca-levy.com/• Kabuki Springs & Spa: https://kabukisprings.com/• How positive age beliefs can support positive health outcomes with Becca Levy, PhD: https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/population-care/how-positive-age-beliefs-can-support-positive-health-outcomes-becca• The U-shape of Happiness Across the Life Course: Expanding the Discussion: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7529452/• The Midlife Unraveling: https://brenebrown.com/articles/2018/05/24/the-midlife-unraveling/• Four Seasons: https://www.fourseasons.com/• Blue Zones: https://www.bluezones.com/• The Esalen Institute: https://www.esalen.org/• Wisdom Well blog: https://www.meawisdom.com/wisdom-well/• Elizabeth Gilbert TED Talk: Your elusive creative genius: https://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_gilbert_your_elusive_creative_genius• Ted Lasso on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/ted-lasso/umc.cmc.vtoh0mn0xn7t3c643xqonfzy• I’ll Push You: https://www.illpushyou.com/• Vuori shorts: https://vuoriclothing.com/collections/shorts• Fly Ranch: https://flyranch.burningman.org/—Recommended books:• Wisdom at Work: The Making of a Modern Elder: https://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-Work-Making-Modern-Elder/dp/0525572902• Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World: https://www.amazon.com/Range-Generalists-Triumph-Specialized-World/dp/0735214484• Peak: How Great Companies Get Their Mojo from Maslow: https://www.amazon.com/Peak-Great-Companies-Their-Maslow/dp/0787988618• Learning to Love Midlife: 12 Reasons Why Life Gets Better with Age: https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Love-Midlife-Reasons-Better/dp/0316567027• Man’s Search for Meaning: https://www.amazon.com/Mans-Search-Meaning-Viktor-Frankl/dp/0807060100/• Emotional Equations: Simple Steps for Creating Happiness + Success in Business + Life: https://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Equations-Creating-Happiness-Business/dp/1451607261/• Big Magic: Creative Living Beyond Fear: https://www.amazon.com/Big-Magic-Creative-Living-Beyond/dp/1594634726—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected] may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

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• He saved OpenAI, invented the “Like” button, and built Google Maps: Bret Taylor on the future of careers, coding, agents, and more

  Bret Taylor’s legendary career includes being CTO of Meta, co-CEO of Salesforce, chairman of the board at OpenAI (yes, during that drama), co-creating both Google Maps and the Like button, and founding three companies. Today he’s the founder and CEO of Sierra, an AI agent company transforming customer service. He’s one of the few people I’ve met who’s been wildly successful at every level—from engineer to C-suite executive to founder—and across almost every discipline, including PM, engineer, CTO, COO, CPO, CEO, and board member.In this conversation, you’ll learn:1. The brutal product review that nearly ended his Google career—and how that failure led to creating Google Maps2. The question Sheryl Sandberg taught him to ask every morning (“What’s the most impactful thing I can do today?”) that transformed how he approached every role3. The three AI market segments that matter4. Why AI agents will replace SaaS products5. His framework for knowing whose advice to actually listen to—and how that came in handy during the OpenAI board drama6. The counterintuitive go-to-market strategy most AI startups get wrong7. Sierra’s outcome-based pricing model that’s transforming how enterprise software is sold (and why every SaaS company should adopt it)8. What he’s teaching his kids about AI that every parent should know—Brought to you by:CodeRabbit—Cut code review time and bugs in half. Instantly: https://coderabbit.link/lennyBasecamp—The famously straightforward project management system from 37signals: https://www.basecamp.com/lennyVanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lenny—Transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/he-saved-openai-bret-taylor—My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/168905359/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation—Where to find Bret Taylor:• X: https://x.com/btaylor• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brettaylor/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Bret Taylor(04:10) Bret’s early career and first major mistake(08:24) The birth of Google Maps(11:57) Lessons from FriendFeed and the importance of honest feedback(31:30) The future of coding and AI’s role(45:26) Preparing the next generation for an AI-driven world(48:46) AI in education(52:05) Business strategies in the AI market(01:04:38) Outcome-based pricing in AI(01:09:15) Productivity gains and AI(01:17:35) Go-to-market strategies for AI products(01:21:49) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• Marissa Mayer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marissamayer/• “Lazy Sunday”—SNL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRhTeaa_B98• Quip: https://quip.com/• Sierra: https://sierra.ai/• FriendFeed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FriendFeed• Sheryl Sandberg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheryl-sandberg-5126652/• Jim Norris on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/halfspin/• Paul Buchheit on X: https://x.com/paultoo• Sanjeev Singh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sanjeev-singh-20a1b72/• Barack Obama: https://www.obamalibrary.gov/obamas/president-barack-obama• Oprah Winfrey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oprah_Winfrey• Ashton Kutcher: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashton_Kutcher• PayPal Mafia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal_Mafia• Sam Altman on X: https://x.com/sama• Warren Buffett on X: https://x.com/warrenbuffett• Unix: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix• Fortran: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran• C: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_(programming_language)• Python: https://www.python.org/• Perl: https://www.perl.org/• Rust: https://www.rust-lang.org/• Eleven Labs: https://elevenlabs.io/• The exact AI playbook (using MCPs, custom GPTs, Granola) that saved ElevenLabs $100k+ and helps them ship daily | Luke Harries (Head of Growth): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ai-marketing-stack• Confluent: https://www.confluent.io/• Databricks: https://www.databricks.com/• Snowflake: https://www.snowflake.com• Harvey: https://www.harvey.ai/• Behind the founder: Marc Benioff: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-founder-marc-benioff• Larry Summers’s website: https://larrysummers.com/• AutoCAD: https://www.autodesk.com/products/autocad/overview• Revit: https://www.autodesk.com/products/revit/• The art and science of pricing | Madhavan Ramanujam (Monetizing Innovation, Simon-Kucher): https://www.amazon.com/Monetizing-Innovation-Companies-Design-Product/dp/1119240867• Pricing your AI product: Lessons from 400+ companies and 50 unicorns | Madhavan Ramanujam: https://lenny.substack.com/p/pricing-and-scaling-your-ai-product-madhavan-ramanujam• Cursor: https://cursor.com/• CodeX: https://openai.com/codex/• Claude Code: https://www.anthropic.com/claude-code• The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers can’t stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell• DirecTV: https://www.directv.com/• SiriusXM: https://www.siriusxm.com/• Wayfair: https://www.wayfair.com/• Akai: https://www.akaipro.com/• Chubbies Shorts: https://www.chubbiesshorts.com/• Weight Watchers: https://www.weightwatchers.com/• CLEAR: https://www.clearme.com/• Stripe: https://stripe.com/• Building product at Stripe: craft, metrics, and customer obsession | Jeff Weinstein (Product lead): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-product-at-stripe-jeff-weinstein• Twilio: https://www.twilio.com/• ServiceNow: https://www.servicenow.com/• Adobe: https://www.adobe.com/• Jobs to be done: https://jobs-to-be-done.com/jobs-to-be-done-a-framework-for-customer-needs-c883cbf61c90• The ultimate guide to JTBD | Bob Moesta (co-creator of the framework): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-jtbd-bob-moesta• Inception: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/• Alan Kay’s quote: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/alan_kay_100831• Jobs at Sierra: https://sierra.ai/careers—Recommended books:• Monetizing Innovation: How Smart Companies Design the Product Around the Price: https://www.amazon.com/Monetizing-Innovation-Companies-Design-Product/dp/1119240867• Competing Against Luck: The Story of Innovation and Customer Choice: https://www.amazon.com/Competing-Against-Luck-Innovation-Customer/dp/0062435612• Endurance: Shackleton’s Incredible Voyage: https://www.amazon.com/Endurance-Shackletons-Incredible-Alfred-Lansing/dp/0465062881—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected] may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

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• Pricing your AI product: Lessons from 400+ companies and 50 unicorns | Madhavan Ramanujam

  Madhavan Ramanujam is the world’s foremost expert on pricing and monetization strategy. As managing partner at Simon-Kucher, he helped over 250 companies, including 30 unicorns, architect their pricing strategies. He’s the author of the definitive book on pricing, Monetizing Innovation. Now he’s back with a sequel, Scaling Innovation, which reveals how to build enduring businesses by dominating both market share and wallet share. He recently left Simon-Kucher to launch his own fund, 49 Palms, focused on helping early-stage AI companies.In this conversation, we discuss:1. The 2x2 framework that identifies your optimal pricing model2. Why AI companies can capture 25% to 50% of value created, vs. 10% to 20% for traditional SaaS products3. Why popular AI coding tools may have already doomed themselves with underpricing4. The “give-and-get” framework top negotiators use to extract maximum value from every deal5. The negotiation strategy that helped one founder 4x their deal size overnight6. How to frame POCs as “business case creation” instead of technical demos (and why this changes everything)7. Why AI companies must get monetization right from day one—not “figure it out later”8. How companies like Intercom’s Fin and Sierra pioneered outcome-based pricing (charging $0.99 per AI resolution)9. The single question that reveals if your pricing is too complex—Brought to you by:Enterpret—Transform customer feedback into product growth: https://enterpret.com/lennyDX—A platform for measuring and improving developer productivity: https://getdx.com/lennyPersona—A global leader in digital identity verification: https://withpersona.com/lenny—Transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/pricing-and-scaling-your-ai-product-madhavan-ramanujam—My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/168109183/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation—Where to find Madhavan Ramanujam:• X: https://x.com/madhavansf• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/madhavansf/• Promo email for Scaling Innovation: [email protected] — If you’re purchasing more than five copies, send a screenshot of your receipt to enter Madhavan’s exclusive bundle raffle.—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Madhavan and his work(04:30) The core thesis of Scaling Innovation(09:20) Common traps founders fall into(12:06) Beautifully simple pricing(15:00) Mastering negotiations(26:51) Other strategies for effective pricing and monetization(27:35) How AI pricing is different(31:33) Handling POCs(36:25) The importance of mastering monetization(38:58) Choosing the right AI pricing model(43:13) Current trends in AI pricing(44:48) Strategizing for outcome-based models(50:23) Packaging strategies for scaling(51:37) Adapting pricing strategies over time(53:40) Key axioms for pricing success(58:00) Takeaways for founders(01:01:33) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• The art and science of pricing | Madhavan Ramanujam (Monetizing Innovation, Simon-Kucher): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-art-and-science-of-pricing-madhavan• Cursor: https://www.cursor.com/• The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers can’t stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell• Sierra Finn: http://www.sierrafinn.com/• Chargeflow: https://www.chargeflow.io/• GitHub: https://github.com/• Intercom: https://www.intercom.com/• Warren Buffett’s quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/11478913-if-you-ve-got-the-power-to-raise-prices-without-losing• Sierra: https://sierra.ai/• Clay Bavor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/claybavor/• Mission: Impossible—The Final Reckoning: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9603208/• Delphi: https://www.delphi.ai/• Dara Ladjevardian on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dara-ladjevardian/• Sam Spelsberg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samuel-spelsberg/• Lennybot: https://www.lennybot.com/• Granola: https://www.granola.ai/• Simon-Kucher: https://www.simon-kucher.com/• Josh Bloom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshuabloompricingconsulting/—Recommended books:• Monetizing Innovation: How Smart Companies Design the Product Around the Price: https://www.amazon.com/Monetizing-Innovation-Companies-Design-Product/dp/1119240867• Scaling Innovation: How Smart Companies Architect Profitable Growth: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1119633060• Business Model Generation: A Handbook for Visionaries, Game Changers, and Challengers: https://www.amazon.com/Business-Model-Generation-Visionaries-Challengers/dp/0470876417• Thinking Fast and Slow: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Slow-Daniel-Kahneman/dp/0374533555/• Contagious: Why Things Catch On: https://www.amazon.com/Contagious-Things-Catch-Jonah-Berger/dp/1451686587/—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected] may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

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