The Technically Human Podcast

In the wake of this week’s landmark $18 billion settlement with Meta, we’re bringing you an episode with Yaël Eisenstat, one of the leading thinkers on the issues at the heart of that case — and the many other recent legal challenges that may be fundamentally changing how we think about the power and responsibility of technology platforms.

In recent months, courts and juries across the country have been confronting questions that technology policy has wrestled with for years: When should platforms be held responsible for harms facilitated by their products? Where is the line between regulating speech and regulating product design? And what does it look like to build the legal cases that hold Big Tech accountable?

And after decades in which Section 230 and other legal protections often prevented these questions from reaching juries at all, are we witnessing the beginning of what we’re calling tech’s Big Tobacco moment?

In the episode, I speak with Yaël Eisenstat about the recent cases against Meta and other platforms, the years of research, journalism, whistleblowing, advocacy, and litigation that made this moment possible, and what happens when evidence about the consequences of technological design finally reaches ordinary jurors.

We also ask what these cases can—and cannot—accomplish. Can litigation succeed where legislation and regulation have struggled? Can social media actually be redesigned to serve the public interest, or are its harms inseparable from its underlying business model? And as our technological landscape shifts from social media toward increasingly personalized and intimate AI systems, are we building an accountability framework for the last technological era just as the next one arrives?

Yaël Eisenstat is the Director of Policy and Impact at the CyberSafety Research Center, where she works on policy approaches to holding online platforms accountable for their effects on public safety and democracy. She previously served as Vice President of the Anti-Defamation League’s Center for Technology & Society and, in 2018, joined Facebook as its Global Head of Elections Integrity Operations for political advertising. Before entering technology policy, Eisenstat spent 14 years in public service as an intelligence officer, diplomat, and White House adviser. She has since become a prominent advocate for greater transparency and accountability in the technology industry.

My conversation today is with Monika Bielskyte, a futurist, foresight strategist, speculative designer and founder of Protopia Futures. She developed the Protopia World Stack, a science-informed, life-centric foresight methodology. Protopia is an Inclusive future vision based on evolved values, informed by bleeding edge scientific research and supported by advanced technological tools.

She was Nike's first Futurist in Residence, is an EY Luminary, and has consulted across entertainment, technology, science, and government – including Disney and Marvel's Black Panther franchise. Her technical expertise spans AI, spatial computing, XR, and synthetic media, with particular attention to how these systems can expand human agency or be weaponized for behavioral manipulation and disinformation.

Monika bridges the worlds of entertainment and real future-making by prototyping culturally expansive, socially and environmentally engaged future visions that combine the best of creativity and science, delivering energizing vision, lasting value and resilience to disruptions. What connects all of it is a commitment to futures literacy - the belief that rendering better futures compelling, curiosity-inducing, and inhabitable is the mechanism by which transformation happens.

On this episode I’m joined by Jess Holbrook, Head of UX Research for Microsoft AI.

We talk about what UX research can—and cannot—tell us about what people need; why user-centered design may be too individualistic for technologies whose effects extend across families, workplaces, communities, and institutions; and what it means to put researchers in the room while AI systems are still being built rather than after fundamental design decisions have already been made.

Over the past 12 years, Jess has held senior research and design leadership roles across Microsoft, Meta, Google, and Amazon. He previously led Generative AI, Responsible AI, and data transparency UX research at Meta, and at Google he founded and led the People + AI Research group, or PAIR, before serving as Head of UX for the Responsible AI and Human-Centered Technology group. His work has focused on bringing human-centered and inclusive approaches into the development of AI systems and translating emerging machine-learning capabilities into products designed around people’s needs.

Jess also writes regularly about AI, frontier UX research, research slop and the future of human-centered technology on his Substack, Gen Purpose.

This episode was produced by Jack Lucas Chang.

Today I’m speaking with Dana Mazia, General Manager of the Bright Initiative by Bright Data, which provides nonprofits, academic institutions, and public bodies with pro bono access to public web data and expertise.

Dana is a lawyer, social entrepreneur, and World Economic Forum Global Shaper with more than 14 years of experience across technology, data, and social impact.

Bright Data is a web-data platform that provides the infrastructure organizations use to collect, process, and analyze publicly available information from across the internet. The Bright Initiative is its public-interest program, making that technology and expertise available to organizations working in academic research, public policy, transparency, and social impact.

Conversations about artificial intelligence typically focus on models: what they can do, what they produce, and whether their outputs are accurate or safe. But behind every model is a less visible infrastructure—the systems through which information is collected, organized, and made usable.

That raises important questions about who can access public web data, what “public” really means, and whether an open internet benefits everyone equally or primarily its most powerful actors. These questions become even more urgent as AI systems move from learning from the web to actively operating within it.

Dana and I discuss the politics of data infrastructure, the ethics of web scraping, the risk of information monopolies, and the legal and ethical questions that arise when information from the public web is collected and operationalized at scale. Ultimately, we ask who should have access to this infrastructure—and who will have the power to shape the AI ecosystem built upon it.

Today I am interviewing Bruce Friedrich, the author of the newly published book "Meat: How the Next Agricultural Revolution Will Transform Humanity's Favorite Food―and Our Future." Bruce Friedrich is the president and founder of the Good Food Institute, one of the leading think tanks working to make the global food system better for the planet, people, and animals. As an international network of organizations, they advance alternative proteins to help meet climate, global health, food security, and biodiversity goals.

Bruce Friedrich serves as GFI’s chief thought leader and relationship-builder, working in close partnership with GFI’s global teams and food system stakeholders around the world. Before founding the Good Food Instiute, he served as Director of Policy for four years at Farm Sanctuary. Prior to that, he worked at PETA for 15 years as Head of Public Campaigns, leading many of the organization's highest-profile and most memorable campaigns.

Bruce has penned op-eds for the Wall Street Journal, Foreign Policy, Nature Food, Wired, and many other publications. He has represented GFI on the Ezra Klein Show, Making Sense (Sam Harris), TED Radio Hour, New Yorker Radio Hour, PBS News Hour, and a variety of other podcasts and TV programs. Bruce’s TED talk has been viewed almost 2.5 million times and translated into 30 languages. Nature featured Bruce’s 2026 book Meat as one of its five “best science picks,” and Publishers Weekly selected Meat as one of the 10 best new releases in science, writing: “This packed account makes food science feel like an urgent and essential undertaking.”

The book has also received praise from Nobel Laureate in economics Michael Kremer, primatologist Jane Goodall, and science fiction master Kim Stanley Robinson, among many others.

Bruce graduated magna cum laude from Georgetown Law and also holds degrees from Johns Hopkins University, the London School of Economics, and Grinnell College.

This episode was produced by Jack Lucas Chang.