Talking TOP 500

What happens when successful entrepreneurs look back at the decisions that helped build their companies, only to realize some of those same decisions created problems down the road?
In this episode of Talking TOP 500, Pat O'Toole and Tim Musch sit down with two Legends of Home Improvement, Brian Gottlieb, founder of Tundraland and author of Beyond the Hammer, and Brian Elias, founder and CEO of ReFloor and founder of 800 Hansons.
Rather than focusing on success stories, this conversation digs into the lessons behind the lessons: expensive lead-generation mistakes, sales organizations that needed to be rebuilt, growth that actually made the business weaker, and strategies that seemed smart at the time but produced unintended consequences. The guests share what they learned about knowing when to push harder, when to change course, and when it is finally time to walk away from an idea.
The conversation also looks ahead to the next stage of growth. What should an owner of a $10 million or $20 million home-improvement company avoid when trying to reach $50 million or $100 million? Brian Gottlieb and Brian Elias offer hard-earned advice designed to help other entrepreneurs avoid the mistakes that come with scaling a business. The episode also serves as a preview of their upcoming session at Top 500 Live, where these lessons will take center stage.

This episode features Ed Kailaher, president of Window Depot USA, discussing the company's unique dealer licensee business model.
Top 500 Talking points
* Window Depot's origin and growth as a network of dealers.
* Ed's background in the home improvement industry and his journey to Window Depot.
* The advantages of Window Depot's dealer licensee model, emphasizing the "why do this alone?" philosophy.
* Best practices shared among Window Depot dealers, focusing on financial acumen and flexibility.
* The company's approach to technology, particularly AI, and its in-house digital agency, Emerson AI.
* Window Depot's future plans for expansion
* Advice for remodelers looking to scale their businesses, stressing financial fundamentals and a "servant's heart" combined with a "savage mind." 
* Discussion on the challenges of finding and retaining labor, especially skilled installers.
* The use of technology in the sales process and the potential of AI in managing customer relationships.

On this Episode of the Talking Top 500 Podcast, Pat and Tim talk with Marcus Sheridan, author of "They Ask, You Answer" about how AI is changing the home improvement industry. 
Key points from the conversation today: 
Fast Remodeler Live: Marcus will be the keynote speaker at the upcoming software and technology conference in Nashville on May 12th and 13th. Use code PODFRL26 for your listener discount! 
AI's impact: AI is changing how people search, with more using LLMs like ChatGPT. This impacts SEO and the effectiveness of Google Ads. 
Trust signals: To be recommended by AI, businesses need to build trust signals through various content types (video, audio, articles).
The Big Five: Homeowners are obsessed with questions about cost, problems, comparisons, reviews, and best options.
Pricing transparency:  It's important to address cost and pricing, not necessarily with exact numbers, but by explaining how costs work in the industry. Google is starting to favor sites with pricing estimators and AI-driven price checks. Sheridan's free book called, "Call for Quote is Dead" at priceguy.ai. 
AI Agents: The future involves AI agents that research options for homeowners.
The three F's of innovation: Faster, friction removal, and fear removal.
Helpful AI tools: Marcus recommends Whisprflow for dictation, and Claude Cowork for competitor analysis.
The era of agents: Websites need to be designed for AI interaction, and businesses will have to think about not only human traffic to their website, but AI traffic.
Finding the right partner: Look for Web and SEO partners who are evolving and suggesting new activities related to AEO (AI engine optimization).

Jeff Gear is CEO and Founder of Revamp Companies, which has been a fast-growing home improvement firm since its founding in 2017. Concrete coatings are a big part of the company's business via its TSR Coatings unit, but it now offers decks and windows.
 
In 2025, the company ranked No. 24 on the TOP 500 list with $160.1 million in revenue on 23,946 jobs. Here are two other facts about Jeff and Revamp.
 
First, Jeff is a pioneer in the use of social media to not only generate leads, but to literally sell jobs. He's got a call-center team that's devoted to communicating directly with prospects on platforms like Facebook and Instagram. 
 
Fact No. 2, Revamp has partnered with private equity in recent years. Gear has been shrewd about these partnerships, and as a result, has been able to fuel growth and deliver the return expected by its partners.

Pat and Tim talk with Jenilee Common the new CEO of Leaf Home.
 
Then, Pat and Tim talk about Trends to Watch for Professional Remodelers as we move into 2026.