PAPod 567 - Open Questions 2025: From Metrics to Monitors — Rethinking Safety
Episode: an extended open Q&A from the Pre-Accident Investigation Conference in Santa Fe covering big-picture safety topics.
Speakers discuss the limits of traditional metrics, the power of real-time monitoring, shifting focus from managing risk to maintaining control, validating controls in the field, learning teams, contractor relationships, and prioritizing high-information events. Anecdotes and practical guidance illustrate how organizations can learn without blame.
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51:18
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51:18
PAPod 566 - Blame Stops Improvement: How Blame Silences Learning
Todd Conklin explores how blame shuts down learning and prevents organizational improvement, arguing that blaming individuals creates a chilling effect that blocks thousands of future learning opportunities.
He connects blame to misunderstandings about human error, emphasizes psychological safety, and urges leaders to ask "what failed" before asking "who failed," while sharing personal anecdotes and reflections.
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22:46
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22:46
PAPod 565 - Fear, FOMO & Fixing Safety: A Conversation with Brent Sutton
Todd Conklin and Brent Sutton discuss the short-term future of safety thinking—covering the rise and fall of lean/TQM, how commodification can slow innovation, and why fear, FOMO and complacency shape which ideas stick. They explore leaders' responsibility, weak signals, and the need for small 'safe-to-fail' experiments to keep systems resilient.
Set in Santa Fe with lighthearted moments (including breakfast burritos and a cheese debate), the episode blends history, practical insight and a call to stay curious about evolving workplace complexity.
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29:12
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29:12
PAPod 564 - Inside Meow Wolf: A Radical Conversation on Safety & Leadership
Recorded live at Meow Wolf in Santa Fe, this episode features a wide-ranging conversation between Todd and Andy Baker about learning, safety culture, and leadership influence.
They dig into HOP and related safety approaches, debate top-down versus middle-out change, discuss the importance of language and unlearning, and explore how to turn belief into practical skill and behavior.
The episode offers real-world insights on piloting change, engaging leaders and middle managers, and learning from others who have adapted these ideas in novel ways.
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24:19
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24:19
PAPood 563 - Human Performance, Not Human Error — Todd Conklin on Reframing Safety
Tiny Todd Conklin joins the No Way Out podcast to explore Human and Organizational Performance (HOP), high-reliability organizing, and how safety emerges from complex systems rather than individual mistakes.
They critique traditional investigations, surveys, and risk matrices, and discuss practical ideas for building capacity, worker agency, psychological safety, and resilient operations.
South Africa