The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan

Eric Ries wrote the book that changed how the entire world builds startups. Now he's back with a more urgent argument: the way we're taught to build companies is quietly turning them against everything that made them worth building in the first place. The creator of The Lean Startup has spent years watching mission-driven founders get fired from their own companies, watching the spark that started everything get extinguished by the very success they worked so hard to create—and he's finally written the blueprint to stop it.

In this interview, Eric breaks down the core ideas behind his new book Incorruptible, why your corporate charter was designed to sound boring so you'd ignore it, and how the loyalty of your best customers is the most valuable—and most endangered—asset your business has.

What you'll learn in this interview:
• Why the metrics you're tracking are actively destroying customer loyalty—and what to measure instead
• The IMVU pivot story: how six months of data finally broke through Eric's stubbornness and forced the pivot that saved the company
• Why product improvements that don't change customer behavior aren't improvements at all
• How to know when it's time to pivot—and why the real problem is never the decision itself but getting your team to agree on the facts
• Why DTC brands are systematically burning their most loyal customers with re-acquisition marketing they've already earned
• The Saul Price story: how the founder of Fed-Mart was locked out of his own company—and came back to build Costco
• Why only 20% of founders are still CEO three years after IPO—and the governance decisions made at founding that cause it
• Why your corporate structure was deliberately designed to sound boring so you'll ignore it until it's too late
• The two paths every mission-driven founder must master: the path of ethos and the path of integrity
• How Novo Nordisk's 100-year-old governance structure—built by a Nobel laureate in the 1920s—accidentally created the most profitable pharmaceutical in history

If you're an early-stage founder, a DTC operator who cares about building something that lasts, or anyone who's ever wondered why the companies that start with the most idealism seem to end up the most corrupt, this conversation will fundamentally change how you think about structure, loyalty, and what it actually means to build a company worth protecting.

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Learn directly from 7, 8 & 9-figure founders inside Foundr+
Start your $1 trial → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/startdollartrial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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→ Already have a store? Apply here →
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CONNECT WITH NATHAN CHAN
Instagram → ⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/nathanchan⁠⁠⁠
LinkedIn → ⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanhchan/⁠⁠⁠

CONNECT WITH ERIC RIES
Instagram → ⁠https://www.instagram.com/ericriesactual/
LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/eries/
Website → https://theleanstartup.com/

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Podcast → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/podcast⁠

When I started getting serious about e-commerce, I genuinely believed the more products you had, the more successful you'd be. More SKUs meant scaling. I was completely wrong.

Here's the problem: most founders launch a hero product, get early traction, and then the anxiety kicks in. What if it runs out of steam? What if a competitor copies me? So they launch a second product, then a third — and suddenly they're mediocre at five things instead of exceptional at one.

In this episode, I share how I built and sold a seven-figure brand off a single water bottle, and break down how IM8 — co-founded by David Beckham — hit $120 million in annualised revenue in under a year on essentially one product, and what both stories mean for how you should be thinking about your brand right now.

Here's what you'll take away:

Why the urge to launch a second product is almost always driven by fear — and how to reframe it

The three questions to ask yourself before you add a single new SKU

How AG1, Liquid IV, and IM8 all built empires off one hero product — and what that blueprint looks like for a smaller brand

Why going deeper on your hero product is a stronger competitive defence than launching more products

The rule of thumb for knowing when you're actually ready to expand — and the mistake I made with Healthish that I'd do differently

How simplicity in your product lineup directly improves your margins, your ops, and your mental bandwidth

If you're thinking about launching a second product line before your first one is fully optimised, this episode will show you exactly what to focus on instead — and what's possible when you commit to doing one thing at the highest level possible.

If you're loving this solo series, I'd love to hear your feedback. Email me directly at [email protected] — I read every reply. Hope you enjoy it.

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CONNECT WITH NATHAN CHAN

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FOLLOW FOUNDR FOR MORE BUSINESS GROWTH STRATEGIES

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Podcast → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/podcast⁠

Daniel Kitay put everything he had—his savings, his mortgage, and two
months before his first child was born—on a container ship full of
sugar-free gummy lollies from Switzerland. When a $250,000 shipping bill
landed before he'd sold a single product, he had no option but to make
it work. Five years later, Funday Natural Sweets does over $100 million
in retail sales across 8,000 stores in Australia alone, selling a
product every single second.

In this interview, the founder of Funday breaks down how he convinced
Chemist Warehouse to submit a purchase order before he had funding, why
he deliberately avoided the confectionery aisle to sidestep Nestlé,
Mars, and Mondelez, and his brutally honest take on when retail will
make you—and when it will destroy you.

What you'll learn in this interview:
• How Daniel convinced Chemist Warehouse to submit a purchase order
before he had a single dollar of funding
• Why a $250,000 shipping bill with no backup plan was the moment that
forced Funday to work
• The $50,000 stock mistake that accidentally invented their limited
edition drop strategy
• Why he deliberately launched in the health food aisle—not the
confectionery aisle—to avoid competing with the multinationals
• The symbiotic DTC and retail flywheel: how retail drives online
discovery and online fuels in-store velocity
• Why he spent $25,000 on a brand agency before launch—and the real
reason behind that decision
• His brutally honest take on retail: when it's the biggest unlock for
scale, and when it will wreck your margins
• How Funday runs a $100 million business with just 25 employees—and the
two-part hiring filter that makes it possible
• Why he's launching into US retail nationwide in September, and the
economies of scale that finally made it possible

If you're building a CPG brand, weighing up when to take the leap into
retail, or trying to figure out how DTC and bricks-and-mortar can work
together instead of against each other, this conversation will
fundamentally change how you think about distribution, risk, and what it
actually takes to build a category from scratch.

SAVE 50% ON OMNISEND FOR 3 MONTHS
Get 50% off your first 3 months of email and SMS marketing with Omnisend with the code FOUNDR50. Just head to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://your.omnisend.com/foundr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to get started.

WANT TO GROW YOUR BRAND WITH META ADS?
Join the Foundr Operators Waitlist → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/operators⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
HOW WE CAN HELP YOU SCALE YOUR BUSINESS FASTER
Learn directly from 7, 8 & 9-figure founders inside Foundr+
Start your $1 trial → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/startdollartrial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

PREFER A CUSTOM ROADMAP AND 1-ON-1 COACHING?
→ Starting from scratch? Apply here →
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-start-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
→ Already have a store? Apply here →
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-growth-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

CONNECT WITH NATHAN CHAN
Instagram → ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/nathanchan⁠⁠
LinkedIn → ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanhchan/⁠⁠

CONNECT WITH DANIEL KITAY
Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/fundaysweets/
LinkedIn → https://au.linkedin.com/in/daniel-kitay
Website → https://www.fundaysweets.com/

FOLLOW FOUNDR FOR MORE BUSINESS GROWTH STRATEGIES
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Website → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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Podcast → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/podcast⁠

A 20-year career in high-level finance ended in a single day when Donna Gilbertson was made redundant with one day's notice. No plan B, two kids at home, and a household now running on one income — she could have played it safe and taken the next accounting role that came along. She went to the interviews. Every single time, she didn't want to be there. So instead, she pulled $7,000 from her home loan offset account and bet it on a hair towel. Two months after launching Junie, she'd done $51,000 in sales.

In this episode, Donna walks us through the full journey — from product validation surveys and months of failed fabric samples, to a viral moment she almost missed because she was watching MasterChef on the couch. She gets honest about the slow weeks, the seven days without a single sale, and what it actually took to be ready when the opportunity came.

What you'll learn in this interview:

How a $7,000 first order placed in October and shipped by sea set the foundation for a February launch that was deliberately timed to avoid Black Friday, Christmas, and the January spending slump

Why Donna surveyed just 25 people before committing to the product — and how that small step gave her enough confirmation to keep going

The exact sourcing process that led her through dozens of fabric rejections before finding the one supplier who could produce what she needed

How she built six months of Instagram content before ever announcing the product, and why posting vague "hair content" was a deliberate strategy

The 15-minute school pickup filming hack that got her consistent with face-to-camera content when nothing else was working

Why having 50+ reviews live on her store before the viral moment mattered as much as the viral moment itself

The comment on a stranger's Instagram reel — written while watching MasterChef — that turned into 347 orders and a complete sellout in under 24 hours

How she validated opening preorders by going back to her audience and asking them directly, before touching a single Shopify setting

Lessons from going from $0 in orders one week to 600 orders the next — and how her accounting brain helped her scale inventory decisions with confidence

The mindset shift that changed everything: the moment she stopped treating Junie as something she was "dabbling in" and decided it was her job

If you're sitting on a business idea while still applying for jobs — or you've launched but you're deep in the slow, invisible stretch between start and traction — this episode is for you. Donna's story is a reminder that the boring, unglamorous work of validation, reviews, and showing up consistently before anything goes viral is exactly what makes it possible to handle it when it does.

SAVE 50% ON OMNISEND FOR 3 MONTHS
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WANT TO GROW YOUR BRAND WITH META ADS?
Join the Foundr Operators Waitlist → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/operators⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

HOW WE CAN HELP YOU SCALE YOUR BUSINESS FASTER
Learn directly from 7, 8 & 9-figure founders inside Foundr+
Start your $1 trial → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/startdollartrial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

PREFER A CUSTOM ROADMAP AND 1-ON-1 COACHING?
→ Starting from scratch? Apply here →
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-start-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
→ Already have a store? Apply here →
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-growth-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

CONNECT WITH DONNA GILBERTSON
Instagram → ⁠https://www.instagram.com/donna_gilbertson_/

Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/hey___junie/
Website → https://heyjunie.com.au/

FOLLOW FOUNDR FOR MORE BUSINESS GROWTH STRATEGIES
YouTube → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/2uyvzdt⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Website → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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Podcast → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/podcast⁠

Most founders think they're ahead of the curve because they're using AI. But if you're only using it for basic ad copy and product descriptions and wondering why it sounds like everything else on the internet — you're not using AI. You're scratching the surface of it.

Here's the problem: the advantage was never just having access to the tools. It's knowing how to direct them at scale. And right now, the brands pulling ahead aren't adding more headcount — they're finding one person who can build autonomous agents across the entire business.

In this episode, I share why I think the AI operator might be the most important hire an e-commerce brand can make right now, what I'm seeing inside Foundr and our members' businesses, and exactly where to start if you want to bring this into your operation today.

Here's what you'll take away:

Why using AI for basic tasks is actually holding your brand back — and what the next level looks like

What an AI operator actually does, and how one person can touch ads, email, design, customer support, and data analysis simultaneously

The difference between using AI tools and building AI systems — and why that gap is where brands are winning or losing

How to find an AI operator today using Upwork, even if you've never hired for this kind of role before

Why the businesses that win won't just be the ones using AI — they'll

be the ones with autonomous agents owning outcomes

If you're still thinking about AI as a content shortcut rather than a business multiplier, this episode will completely reframe how you approach your next hire — and what's actually possible with the right person directing it.

If you're loving this solo series, I'd love to hear your feedback. Email me directly at [email protected] — I read every reply. Hope you enjoy it.

WANT TO GROW YOUR BRAND WITH META ADS?
Join the Foundr Operators Waitlist → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/operators⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

HOW WE CAN HELP YOU SCALE YOUR BUSINESS FASTER

Learn directly from 7, 8 & 9-figure founders inside Foundr+

Start your $1 trial → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/startdollartrial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

PREFER A CUSTOM ROADMAP AND 1-ON-1 COACHING?

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