The Autism Little Learners Podcast

The one who melts down at the smallest request, who seems to dig in the moment you say "do this."...you know this child.  In this episode I sit down with Casey Ehrlich, PhD — social scientist, founder of At Peace Parents, and a leader in the first peer-reviewed PDA research in the United States — to talk about PDA: what it is, why it's a nervous system response rather than defiance, and what actually helps.
PDA isn't defiance. It's a survival-level drive for autonomy — and once you see that, you respond to the child in front of you completely differently.
PDA most often stands for pathological demand avoidance, but many autistic people prefer pervasive (or persistent) drive for autonomy — because autonomy is right at the root of what activates the nervous system. Casey defines it as a survival drive for autonomy and equality that can override other survival instincts like eating, sleeping, toileting, and even safety.
We talk through what PDA actually looks like in young children, why behavior that reads as oppositional or manipulative is so often a nervous-system response, and the practical, compassionate shifts that help a dysregulated child feel safe again — in the classroom and at home.
We'll talk about:
●  what PDA stands for — and why many autistic people prefer "pervasive drive for autonomy"
●  why demand avoidance is a nervous system response, not manipulation or defiance
●  the five characteristics Casey looks for, including equalizing behavior
●  why we flip the order for PDA kids: nervous system and autonomy first
●  the difference between independence and autonomy
●  real strategies: signals of safety, declarative language, and rhythms over routines
In This Episode, You'll Learn
•  What PDA is, and why "pervasive or persistent drive for autonomy" may describe it better
•  How a survival drive for autonomy can override eating, sleeping, toileting, and safety
•  Why "equalizing behavior" can look oppositional but is actually a nervous-system response
•  How to read the early signals that a child is moving toward fight-or-flight
•  Why reducing spoken language and using declarative language lowers perceived demands
•  How to send signals of safety with your face, tone, and body — and why getting low matters
•  What the "four S's" — safe nervous system, screens, sensory/novelty, special interest — reveal about regulation
•  Why repair and felt safety, not teaching, are the moves in the hard moment
Key Takeaways
•  PDA is a nervous system response, not defiance or manipulation
•  Autonomy is at the root — a perceived loss of autonomy activates the survival brain
•  For PDA kids, think nervous system and autonomy first, then sensory, executive function, and communication
•  Independence is doing a task alone; autonomy is having a genuine say in what happens
•  Signals of safety often matter more than words
•  Declarative language lowers the demand a child perceives
•  Think rhythms, not rigid routines — even a chosen routine can start to feel like lost autonomy
•  Compassion over compliance — always
Try This
•  Pause and ask whether a behavior might be a nervous-system response to a perceived demand
•  Lower the demand: swap questions and directions for declarative, observational statements
•  Get low to the child's level and soften your face, tone, and pace
•  Offer real autonomy — a genuine say, not just a choice between two adult-chosen options
•  Reduce spoken language during escalation and wait for the child to re-engage
•  Build in rhythms instead of rigid routines
•  In the hard moment, focus on repair and felt safety, not on teaching the lesson
Related Resources & Links
💚 Casey Ehrlich — At Peace Parents (free PDA masterclass)
💚 At Peace Parents Podcast
💚 The Declarative Language Handbook by Linda K. Murphy
💚 Free Visual Support Starter Set
💚 Autism Little Learners Membership
When we stop asking "How do I get this child to comply?" and start asking "What is this child's nervous system telling me?" everything changes. PDA kids aren't giving us a hard time — they're having a hard time. And when we lead with autonomy, safety, and compassion, we give them what they actually need to come back to calm and connection.

That child who waits for you to start every sentence? In this replay I sit down with SLP Alexandria Zachos — founder of Meaningful Speech — to talk about how years of prompting quietly create prompt dependence, and how silence, connection, and a child-led approach help gestalt language processors find their own spontaneous voice.
Prompting doesn't lead to spontaneous language. Connection, silence, and meeting a child where they are do.
Gestalt language processing (GLP) is a normal, natural way of developing language — just a different path than the analytic, word-by-word route most of us were taught. Alex walks us through what it actually is, how the stages unfold from delayed echolalia to flexible, novel grammar, and why so many kids we've labeled "echolalic" or "scripting" are simply gestalt language processors who need a different kind of support.
We also dig into the hard truth about prompting — why fill-in-the-blank, cloze phrases, and always initiating for a child can lead to prompt dependence — and what to do instead: natural language modeling, honoring all communication, and trusting silence to make room for language to emerge.
We'll talk about:
●  what gestalt language processing is — and why it isn't a disorder
●  the six stages of gestalt language development, from delayed echolalia to complex grammar
●  how prompting and compliance-based strategies create prompt dependence over time
●  why our ultimate goal is spontaneous, flexible, multimodal communication
●  how silence, connection, and being a trusted communication partner change everything
●  why it's never too late for an older child who has become prompt dependent
In This Episode, You'll Learn
•  What gestalt language processing is, and how it differs from analytic language development
•  How the stages unfold — delayed echolalia, mitigated echolalia, the "magic" word-freeing stage, and grammar
•  Why delayed echolalia is always communicating something, even when it isn't literal
•  How to do "detective work" to figure out what a child's gestalt actually means
•  Why years of prompting and cloze phrases lead to prompt dependence, not spontaneous language
•  What targeted natural language modeling looks like across communicative functions
•  Why "the change starts with us," not with fixing the child
•  How silence and the OWL approach (Observe, Wait, Listen) create space for language to emerge
•  Why acknowledging all communication — a smile, a nod, a repeat — builds the trust language grows from
Key Takeaways
•  Gestalt language processing is a natural way of developing language, not a disorder
•  Delayed echolalia is meaningful — it's communicating something worth investigating
•  Prompting does not build spontaneous communicators; child-led support does
•  Our goal is spontaneous, flexible, novel communication — including through AAC
•  Change starts with what we model and how we respond, not with the child
•  Silence is a strategy: spontaneous language emerges when the pressure is off
•  Acknowledge all communication to build the relationship and trust
•  Use a child's own gestalts — and put them into AAC — for instant buy-in
•  It's never too late for an older, prompt-dependent child
Try This
•  Notice how often you prompt, question, or fill in the blank — then try saying less
•  Use the OWL approach: observe, wait, and listen before you speak
•  Let silence sit; follow the child's lead and join what they love
•  Acknowledge every attempt to communicate with a repeat, a smile, or a nod
•  Model language naturally instead of asking the child to perform it
•  When you hear a gestalt, do some detective work to learn what it means
•  Add a child's gestalts into their AAC device for automatic buy-in
•  With an older prompt-dependent child, plan low-pressure sessions to rebuild trust first
Related Resources & Links
💚 Alexandria Zachos — Meaningful Speech (free masterclass on echolalia & child-led therapy)
💚 Meaningful Speech — Beginner's Guide to AAC (free masterclass)
💚 Natural Language Acquisition by Marge Blanc
💚 Free Visual Support Starter Set
💚 Autism Little Learners Membership
When we stop trying to pull language out of a child and start building a relationship they feel safe in, something shifts. Gestalt language processors don't need more prompting — they need us to slow down, model naturally, honor every way they communicate, and trust that the silence is doing work too. That's where spontaneous, joyful communication has room to grow.

Teaching autistic preschoolers can feel lonely. This is the episode where I pull back the curtain on the membership that became the opposite of that island — where it came from, what's inside, and the community that surprised me most.
Teaching young autistic children can feel like being on an island. The membership is the opposite of that.
I'll tell you how it began in grief, after I lost my dad in 2019, and grew into a genuine passion for helping educators and parents feel less overwhelmed and celebrate the small wins that build on each other.
I'll share the story of Laura — a member who started with four empty walls and turned them into a classroom where children are seen, presumed competent, and given every chance to communicate. And I'll tell you why, even with hundreds of resources inside, people don't stay for the resources. They stay for each other.
We'll talk about:
how Autism Little Learners was born out of one of the hardest seasons of my life
why teaching young autistic children so often feels like being on an island
the member who started with four empty walls — and what her classroom looks like now
the Four Foundations framework: Regulate, Connect, Routines, and Teach
what's actually inside the membership (and what isn't the reason people stay)
how a community of real educators in real classrooms makes the island disappear
In This Episode, You'll Learn
How a grief-driven project quietly grew into a community of educators and caregivers
Why the "island feeling" — not a lack of skill — is where so many educators stall out
How Laura set up a brand-new autism classroom from an empty room using the membership
What it looks like to build connection and trust with students before placing demands
The Four Foundations that give you a clear path through your day
What the membership includes: resources, on-demand trainings, handouts, adapted books, and a high support needs curriculum
Why presuming competence changes what children are able to show you
Key Takeaways
You don't have to do this work alone
The island feeling is common — and it's usually where progress stalls
Transformation rarely starts with a breakthrough; it starts with support and consistency
Presume competence — never underestimate what a child can do
Children are soaking it all in, even when it looks like they aren't watching
Resources matter, but community is what keeps educators going
Small, consistent shifts — supported and sustained — are the ones that change everything
Regulate, Connect, Routines, Teach: a simple framework for a complicated day
Try This
Name your own "island" moment — then bring it to people who understand it
Model AAC with no pressure and no expectation of an immediate response\Build connection and trust with a student before adding any demands
Set up one predictable routine that helps a child feel safe
Turn a board book you already own into an adapted, hands-on book
Celebrate one small win this week, and share it with another educator
When you feel stuck, reach for a person, not just another resource
Related Resources & Links
💚 Autism Little Learners Membership
💚 Preschool Autism Summit
This membership is the opposite of the island. It's an empty room becoming a place where children are seen, presumed competent, and given every chance to communicate and learn — with a whole community standing alongside the educator who makes it happen. If you've been feeling that island feeling lately, come take a look. I think, for a lot of you, it will feel like home.

My non-speaking three-year-old student told me "This is boring" on his AAC device.
That moment changed everything for me, because that is communication, and that is competence. It's exactly what today's episode is about: presuming competence, an idea that quietly shapes everything else we do with young autistic children.
Because so often, the ability was there all along. What was missing wasn't the child's capacity. It was the tools, and an adult willing to believe there was something worth saying.
This conversation explores what presuming competence actually means, why it matters so much in the preschool years, the prerequisite myths that hold kids back, and the practical shifts that help us act like the capable child is already there.
We'll talk about:
● what presuming competence really means
● why the preschool years set a child's trajectory
● the "prerequisite trap" and why there are no readiness skills for communication
● why speech is not the same as intelligence
● what presuming competence looks like in a real classroom
● why communication should never have to be earned
Because we don't know what a child knows until they have the tools to tell us.
In This Episode, You'll Learn
• What it actually means to presume competence, and why it's a starting posture, not a reward • Why the false belief that "speech equals intelligence" causes real harm • How the way we describe a child can become a self-fulfilling prophecy • Why there are no prerequisites for communication, no pointing, matching, or "safe behavior" required • How lowered expectations in early childhood can follow a child for a lifetime • Practical ways to presume competence with non-speaking and minimally speaking children • Why cognitive testing can dramatically underestimate what a child knows • What it means to make communication available rather than something a child has to earn
Key Takeaways
• Presuming competence means believing in a child's capacity before they can prove it • Non-speaking does not mean non-understanding • Speech is not the same as intelligence • There are no readiness skills required for robust AAC • Children grow toward the expectations we hold for them • We don't talk about a child in front of them, because we presume they understand • Behavior almost always has deeper meaning than a few simple categories • Communication is a right, not something a child has to earn
Try This
• Pick one child whose abilities you may be quietly underestimating, and shift one assumption this week • Talk to every child as if they understand every word, because they very well might • Stop talking about a child in front of them, even with co-teachers and paras • Follow a child's deep interests instead of restricting them • Model language without requiring the child to perform it back • Make room for silence, simply being a calm, trusting presence • Hold cognitive test scores loosely, and presume there is more inside than the test could reach
Related Resources & Links
AAC In The Classroom
AAC- What Most Educators Miss
 Preschool Autism Summit Registration- Grab your free ticket to the 3rd Annual Preschool Autism Summit (Happening Now)
Autism Little Learners Membership
When we presume competence, we stop waiting for children to prove they're ready and start making sure they always have the opportunity to communicate. Our job was never to decide when a child is ready. It's to make sure the door is always open. And once you start seeing every child as already capable, it changes everything about the way you teach.

What if defiance is really dysregulation? In this episode I sit down with Alyssa Blask Campbell — New York Times bestselling author of Tiny Humans, Big Emotions, founder of Seed & Sow, and co-creator of the Collaborative Emotion Processing method — to talk about emotional intelligence, unique nervous systems, and why the behavior we find hardest is so often a child asking for support.
When we see challenging behavior, we're usually looking at a nervous system that needs support — not a child who needs fixing.
Alyssa breaks down the five components of emotional intelligence — self-awareness, self-regulation, empathy, motivation, and social skills — and why every one of us develops them differently. She shares a fresh way to understand empathy, a powerful reframe around the word "autistic" and our own implicit biases, and why so much of supporting a dysregulated child starts with regulating ourselves first.
We also get into her flagship free tool, the regulation questionnaire built alongside OTs, and the sensory shift that's helping schools cut behavior support calls by 60 percent — not by adding more tools, but by matching the right tool to the child in front of you.
We'll talk about:
the five components of emotional intelligence, and why we each develop them differently
why regulation is never one-size-fits-all
a fresh way to understand empathy: believing a feeling is true for the child
the Collaborative Emotion Processing method, and why most of it is about us
how implicit bias shapes the way we respond to an autism diagnosis
the free regulation questionnaire, and the sensory shift that cut behavior calls by 60%
In This Episode, You'll Learn
The five components of emotional intelligence: self-awareness, self-regulation, empathy, motivation, and social skills
Why "the volcano" is such a powerful way to teach kids self-awareness
Why regulation strategies have to match a child's unique nervous system
A new definition of empathy — connecting over what a child feels, not why
How implicit biases quietly shape what we expect of an autistic child
Why supporting kids well starts with regulating ourselves first
The difference between sensory-seeking and sensory-sensitive needs, and why the right tool matters
How a free regulation questionnaire helps match the right support to the right child
Why predictable routines are regulating and build a child's autonomy
Key Takeaways
Challenging behavior is often a dysregulated nervous system asking for support
Every human has a unique nervous system — regulation is not one-size-fits-all
We each develop the five components of emotional intelligence differently
Empathy means believing a child's feeling is true, no matter the reason behind it
The work starts with the adult: our self-awareness, our biases, our self-care
The right sensory tool beats more tools — match the tool to the child
Meeting sensory needs for everyone can dramatically reduce behavior support calls
Predictability regulates the nervous system and supports autonomy
Your reactivity isn't failure; it's dysregulation — and there's a path forward
Try This
Name the "volcano" with a child to build self-awareness before the explosion
Ask what truly calms this nervous system instead of defaulting to deep breaths
Practice empathy by believing the feeling, without judging the reason for it
Notice the story or bias behind your own reaction to a behavior
Map your own nervous system: what recharges you, and what drains you
Offer a sensory tool to any child who needs it, not just to one labeled child
Build in predictable routines and transition objects to ease the day
Regulate yourself first, then return to the child with more capacity
Related Resources & Links
 Seed & Sow — free Regulation Questionnaire
Tiny Humans, Big Emotions by Alyssa Blask Campbell
Big Kids, Bigger Feelings by Alyssa Blask Campbell
Preschool Autism Summit (July 2026)
We all have a unique nervous system, and none of us regulate the same way. When we stop trying to manage behavior and start getting curious about the human in front of us — what's dysregulating, what's regulating, what support would actually help — everything softens. Behavior becomes communication, and our job becomes connection. That's good for our autistic learners, and it turns out it's good for every child in the room.