Uncensored CMO

Brent Smart is one of the most respected marketers in the world. After spending more than 20 years in advertising, he made the rare move from agency life to become CMO of NRMA Insurance. Brent's most recent role as CMO of Telstra, Australia's largest telecommunications company, he helped transform the brand through bold, distinctive and highly effective marketing.
In this episode, Brent shares the principles behind his approach to creativity, from selling big ideas inside large organisations and drawing on academic marketing frameworks to building a culture where great work can thrive. We discuss the campaigns that defined his career, including Telstra's viral "Better on a Better Network" campaign, why humour and surprise remain powerful competitive advantages, and the unique agency model that helped Telstra consistently produce standout work.
Timestamps
00:00 - Start
01:03 - Why Brent left Telstra
02:31 - Why Brent moved in house after 20 years agency side
05:41 - How to sell a creative idea into a big organisation
11:01 - The academic frameworks to create great marketing
12:16 - Why you should look at your brands heritage
14:02 - The most successful campaign Brent did for NRMA
17:33 - How Brent won a Grand Effie
21:13 - How Brent transformed Telstra’s brand marketing
26:08 - The Telstra Walk - the viral campaign
32:39 - Using humour to cut through
35:00 - The power of surprise and consistency
37:41 - The unique agency model that helped Telstra create cuthrough work
40:02 - Why craft is so important in 2026
42:44 - How to build a creative culture
47:11 - How to be a great CMO

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Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot
Download System1's creator effectiveness report here:
https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook
Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here:
https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo

Bec Darley, CMO of Vodafone Australia, joins us to discuss what it really takes to grow a challenger brand in one of the world's toughest telecoms markets.
From competing against an entrenched duopoly to building distinctive campaigns with Ali Wong, Bec shares how Vodafone has embraced its challenger mindset rather than trying to imitate the market leaders. We explore why marketers need to understand far more than advertising, from unit economics and legal to customer experience and organisational change, and why the best marketing leaders are, ultimately, business leaders.
Timestamps
00:00 - Start
00:54 - Who is Bec Darley?
03:31 - Taking on roles beyond marketing to make you a better marketer
05:38 - Why the history of duopolies in Australia makes being a challenger tough
08:53 - How does Vodafone take on the giants as a challenger
12:55 - Leaning into your disadvantage
16:01 - Vodafone’s commercials with Ali Wong
18:37 - The importance of legal for marketing
21:08 - When taking risks backfires - getting banned
24:19 - Focusing on mental availability
26:40 - Are we losing the ability to be creative while hunting efficiency
29:28 - Understanding the unit economics of the business
34:28 - How to manage a portfolio of brands
36:18 - Why you need to be customer first
38:51 - The best marketers move beyond marketing
40:24 - How to make change in a company
43:46 - Embracing discomfort and failing fast
46:23 - Bec’s advice to all young marketers

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Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot
Download System1's creator effectiveness report here:
https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook
Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here:
https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo

Jonathan Kerr, CMO of Auto & General, joins us to explore how one of Australia's most successful challenger brands has built sustained growth by combining strong marketing fundamentals with relentless execution.
From creating a role for himself at Auto & General to helping Budget Direct become one of the country's fastest-growing insurance brands, Jonathan shares why product should always come before growth, how marketers can take greater ownership of the 4 Ps, and what insurance consistently gets right about creativity. We also discuss the power of distinctive brand characters, audio branding, in-house creative teams and a media strategy designed to maximise long-term effectiveness.
Useful links
This episode is brought to you by System1. Download their creator effectiveness report here: https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook
Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here:
https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo
Timestamps
00:00:00 - Start
00:01:41 - How Jonathan found out about Auto and General
00:03:31 - How Jonathan created a new role for himself
00:06:58 - How to balance low price with great product
00:10:36 - Market share growth for Budget Direct
00:12:06 - Focusing on product over growth
00:13:59 - How to control more of the P’s
00:16:51 - Why does insurance produce such creative work?
00:20:52 - The power of compounding work in insurance
00:24:21 - Developing brand characters, and when to kill them off
00:30:08 - The power of audio and jingles
00:34:16 - What’s too silly to be said can be sung
00:36:13 - Why they do so much work in house
00:40:34 - Budget Direct’s unique approach to media buying
00:42:43 - How Jonathan uses AI
00:48:04 - The key challenger brand principles Jonathan has followed
00:50:59 - What makes a successful CMO?
00:52:55 - Do we need to re-educate ourselves on marketing theory?
01:00:27 - The best advice you’ve ever recieved

Pedro Pina, VP of YouTube for Europe, the Middle East and Africa, joins us to explore how YouTube helped create the creator economy and why so many brands are still failing to take full advantage of it.
From the rise of full-time creators to the changing role of YouTube in the media landscape, Pedro explains what makes the platform unique, the metrics that actually matter, and why great content continues to outperform everything else. We also discuss the balance between long-form and Shorts, the "YouTube Confidence Gap" among CMOs, and how brands can build authentic partnerships with creators that drive real business results.
If you're wondering where marketing is heading next, this is a masterclass from one of the people shaping it.
Get the YouTube Confidence Gap Report from Little Dot Studios:
https://info.littledotstudios.com/little-dot-studios-the-youtube-confidence-gap-report
This episode is brought to you by System1. Download their creator effectiveness report here: https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:35 - Why YouTube made a creator space in Cannes
03:06 - How Cannes has changed over the past 20 years
06:12 - How many people are paid to be YouTubers
09:39 - The secret of YouTube
11:08 - Who are the biggest creators on YouTube
12:36 - What are the most important metrics on YouTube
14:42 - Why content will always be king on YouTube
15:57 - What makes a succesful YouTuber
19:48 - Is YouTube a broadcaster, streaming platform or social network?
22:36 - How important is short form for creators in 2026
27:24 - The YouTube Confidence Gap
28:56 - What CMOs think about YouTube
29:54 - How to get more confidence in your YouTube strategy
32:53 - The biggest barriers for companies being successful on YouTube
35:00 - How can brands work successfully with creators
39:31 - How can brands be authentic when they work with creators
42:46 - What Pedro wishes CMOs understood better about YouTube
44:14 - The best advice Pedro has ever recieved

Novartis CMO Gail Horwood joins Janet Balis, Managing Director & Senior Partner at BCG, to explore how one of the world's largest pharmaceutical companies is redefining healthcare marketing.
Fresh from winning two Cannes Lions, Gail shares how Novartis is proving that creativity can thrive even in one of the most heavily regulated industries. From partnering with the NFL for a Super Bowl campaign to convincing stakeholders to embrace bolder ideas, we discuss what it takes to create work that stands out while navigating complex regulations.
The conversation also explores how AI is reshaping both creativity and business transformation, where marketers should focus their efforts, and why the biggest opportunity for AI isn't just efficiency, but unlocking growth.
This episode has been produced in partnership with BCG. Browse their CMO Report here:
https://www.bcg.com/publications/2026/making-the-agentic-marketing-transformation-a-reality

Timestamps
00:00 - Start
00:49 - Jon’s full circle moment with Norvatis
01:39 - Novartis’ journey to two Cannes Lions
02:54 - Why more people need to walk the work
04:05 - Creating surprising advertising in a heavily regulated category
09:03 - Partnering with the NFL for a Super Bowl campaign
10:24 - How to get your company to embrace risky work
16:01 - How to get stakeholders outside of marketing onboard
19:35 - The reaction to the ads after Super Bowl
21:56 - How AI is being used in the service of creativity
27:04 - How Novartis are using AI for creativity
30:27 - How Novartis are rethinking their marketing with AI
32:46 - Where AI is going to be used outside of marketing
35:03 - AI for efficiency vs growth
37:16 - How to deliver leadership change in the age of AI
40:22 - The boring things AI will solve
42:53 - What makes Gail such a good CMO
44:25 - The worst way to evaluate your career success
45:57 - The best advice Gail has ever received