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Are the laws of physics governing forces or elegant summaries? In this deep and often humorous debate, Barry Loewer of Rutgers and Eddy Chen of UC San Diego clash over the very nature of physical reality. Are the laws of nature real, mind independent constraints that shape what’s possible or are they human made descriptions of observed patterns? Together they explore metaphysics, causation, probability, and whether the universe is truly ruled by anything at all. A must watch for anyone questioning the foundations of science itself.
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Timestamps:
00:00 The Nature of Physical Reality
42:28 The Circularity of Scientific Understanding
1:05:44 Reality Explored
1:08:28 Describing Human Experience
1:10:10 The Role of Science
1:10:58 Understanding Motion and Laws
1:12:19 The Nature of Laws
1:14:55 Possible Worlds in Philosophy
1:18:05 Configuration Space Debate
1:21:10 Quantum Mechanics and Reality
1:22:50 Metaphysical Necessity
1:27:13 The Nature of Free Will
1:30:14 Bridging Philosophy and Science
1:32:05 Constraints and Freedom
1:34:57 Philosophical Disputes
1:39:08 The Journey of Learning
2:05:16 Teaching and Learning Dynamics
2:07:23 Closing Reflections
Links Mentioned:
• Barry’s published papers: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=n_RTOwO00oEC&hl=en
• Eddy’s published papers: https://arxiv.org/a/chen_e_1.html
• Neil Turok on TOE: https://youtu.be/ZUp9x44N3uE
• Greg Chaitin on TOE: https://youtu.be/zMPnrNL3zsE
• Leonard Susskind on TOE: https://youtu.be/2p_Hlm6aCok
• Emily Adlam on TOE: https://youtu.be/6I2OhmVWLMs
• Laws of Nature and Chances (book): https://www.amazon.com/Laws-Nature-Chances-Breathes-Equations/dp/0198907699
• Laws of Physics (book): https://www.amazon.com/Laws-Physics-Elements-Philosophy/dp/100901272X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1CHA72RYFUOI8&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.OjkhTXRzZw_SWTMFZp8dUtREsTxacKuwg03AsLUUp6qLCuygS74CtEgujWl7wMvVEt-ErFEz-CfFLiiXTmuUCwKq0TW4WLFIA3DIhDNVaV4.gRuqaZldjUa8Kv_j1ew-CfZGQqtdt00X55fyMZ9NGD4&dib_tag=se&keywords=eddy+chen&qid=1749667626&s=books&sprefix=eddy+chen%2Cstripbooks%2C128&sr=1-1
• On the Plurality of Worlds (book): https://www.amazon.com/Plurality-Worlds-David-K-Lewis/dp/0631224262
• Tim Maudlin on TOE: https://youtu.be/fU1bs5o3nss
• Tim Maudlin and Tim Palmer on TOE: https://youtu.be/883R3JlZHXE
• How Physics Makes Us Free (book): https://www.amazon.com/How-Physics-Makes-Us-Free/dp/0190269448
• From Time Asymmetry to Quantum Entanglement (paper): https://arxiv.org/pdf/2006.05029
• Jacob Barandes on TOE: https://youtu.be/7oWip00iXbo
• Realism with a Human Face (book): https://www.amazon.com/Realism-Human-Face-Hilary-Putnam/dp/0674749456
• Causation and Laws of Nature in Early Modern Philosophy (book): https://www.amazon.com/Causation-Nature-Early-Modern-Philosophy/dp/0199664684/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0
• The Maniac (book): https://www.amazon.com/MANIAC-Benjamin-Labatut/dp/0593654471
• When We Cease to Understand the World (book): https://www.amazon.com/When-We-Cease-Understand-World/dp/1681375664
• Eddy’s paper on time and nature: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2109.09226
SUPPORT:
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2:19:00
The Theory That Shatters Language Itself
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Professor Elan Barenholtz, cognitive scientist at Florida Atlantic University, joins TOE to discuss one of the most unsettling ideas in cognitive science: that language is a self-contained, autoregressive system with no inherent connection to the external world. In this mind-altering episode, he explains why AI’s mastery of language without meaning forces us to rethink the nature of mind, perception, and reality itself...
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Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e
Timestamps:
00:00 The Mind and Language Connection
02:09 The Grounded Thesis of Language
09:29 The Epiphany of Language
13:06 The Dichotomy of Language and Perception
16:24 Language as an Autonomous System
19:48 The Problem of Qualia and Language
23:35 Bridging Language and Action
31:32 Exploring Embeddings in Language
38:21 The Platonic Space of Language
44:17 The Challenges of Meaning and Action
51:05 Understanding the Complexity of Color
52:53 The Paradox of Language Describing Itself
58:19 The Map of Language and Action
1:07:48 Continuous Learning in Language Models
1:11:46 The Nature of Memory
1:22:46 The Role of Context
1:32:18 Exploring Language Dynamics
1:39:44 The Shift from Oral to Written Language
2:11:34 Language and the Cosmic Whole
2:21:35 Reflections on Existence
Links Mentioned:
• Elan’s Substack: https://elanbarenholtz.substack.com
• Elan's X / Twitter: https://x.com/ebarenholtz
• Geoffrey Hinton on TOE: https://youtu.be/b_DUft-BdIE
• Joscha Bach and Ben Goertzel on TOE: https://youtu.be/xw7omaQ8SgA
• Elan’s published papers: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=2grAjZsAAAAJ
• Ai medical panel on TOE: https://youtu.be/abzXzPBW4_s
• Jacob Barandes and Manolis Kellis on TOE: https://youtu.be/MTD8xkbiGis
• Will Hahn on TOE: https://youtu.be/3fkg0uTA3qU
• Noam Chomsky on TOE: https://youtu.be/DQuiso493ro
• Greg Kondrak on TOE: https://youtu.be/FFW14zSYiFY
• Andres Emilsson on TOE: https://youtu.be/BBP8WZpYp0Y
• Harnessing the Universal Geometry of Embeddings (paper): https://arxiv.org/pdf/2505.12540
• Yang-Hui He on TOE: https://youtu.be/spIquD_mBFk
• Iain McGilchrist on TOE: https://youtu.be/Q9sBKCd2HD0
• Curt interviews ChatGPT: https://youtu.be/mSfChbMRJwY
• Empiricism and the Philosophy of Mind (book): https://www.amazon.com/dp/0674251555
• Karl Friston on TOE: https://youtu.be/uk4NZorRjCo
• Michael Levin and Anna Ciaunica on TOE: https://youtu.be/2aLhkm6QUgA
• The Biology of LLMs (paper): https://transformer-circuits.pub/2025/attribution-graphs/biology.html
• Jacob Barandes on TOE: https://youtu.be/YaS1usLeXQM
• Emily Adlam on TOE: https://youtu.be/6I2OhmVWLMs
• Julian Barbour on TOE: https://youtu.be/bprxrGaf0Os
• Tim Palmer on TOE: https://youtu.be/vlklA6jsS8A
• Neil Turok on TOE: https://youtu.be/ZUp9x44N3uE
• Jayarāśi Bhaṭṭa: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/jayaraasi/
• On the Origin of Time (book): https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593128443
SUPPORT:
- Become a YouTube Member (Early Access Videos):
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SOCIALS:
- Twitter: https://twitter.com/TOEwithCurt
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2:32:19
What is “Energy,” Actually?
Veritasium pointed out that energy isn't conserved, but here I argue something further: energy is not even well-defined!
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SUPPORT:
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SOCIALS:
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12:58
The Many Worlds Theory of Quantum Mechanics | David Wallace
Philosopher of physics David Wallace breaks down the Everett (Many-Worlds) interpretation of quantum mechanics in today's episode. We discuss the big misconceptions in physics and explore probability, emergence, and personal identity across multiple worlds. Wallace also touches on the Born Rule, the direction of time, and why consciousness may not be as mysterious as it seems. This is a mind-bending tour through the foundations of reality. Enjoy. Thank you.
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As a listener of TOE you can get a special 20% off discount to The Economist and all it has to offer! Visit https://www.economist.com/toe
David Wallace links:
• The Emergent Multiverse (book): https://www.amazon.com/dp/0198707541
• David Wallace’s published papers: https://philpeople.org/profiles/david-wallace/publications
• Stating Structural Realism (paper): https://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/20048/1/semantic.pdf
• David’s reading resources: https://sites.pitt.edu/~dmw121/resources.html
• The Quantization of Gravity (paper): https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0004005
• Ted Jacobson discusses entropy on TOE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mhctWlXyV8
• Curt debunks the “all possible paths” myth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcY3ZtgYis0
• Julian Barbour discusses time on TOE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-bImnQ9cmw
• TOE’s String Theory Iceberg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4PdPnQuwjY
• Bryce DeWitt’s published papers: https://journals.aps.org/search/results?clauses=%5B%7B%22operator%22%3A%22AND%22%2C%22field%22%3A%22author%22%2C%22value%22%3A%22Bryce+S+DeWitt%22%7D%5D
• Carlo Rovelli discusses loop quantum gravity on TOE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF4SAketEHY
• Avshalom Elitzur discusses spacetime on TOE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWRAaimQT1E
• Sean Carroll discusses the physics community on TOE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AoRxtYZrZo
• Ruth Kastner discusses retrocausality on TOE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BsHh3_vCMQ
• Simon Saunders’s talk on Many Worlds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gM-sgmCUik
• Jacob Barandes discusses quantum mechanics on TOE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oWip00iXbo
• Jacob Barandes discusses philosophy in physics on TOE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaS1usLeXQM
Join My New Substack (Personal Writings): https://curtjaimungal.substack.com
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SUPPORT:
- Become a YouTube Member (Early Access Videos):
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Timestamps:
00:00 Misconceptions About Physics
01:27 Simplicity in Physics
4:48 Understanding Quantum Mechanics
7:27 Mysteries of Large-Scale Physics
9:53 The Nature of Time
13:19 Boundary Conditions in Physics
15:04 Models of Physics
16:56 Canonical vs Covariant Quantization
21:10 Theories of Gravity
28:22 Everettian Quantum Mechanics
30:11 Misconceptions in Many Worlds Theory
47:52 Decision Theory in Quantum Mechanics
57:58 The Deutsch-Wallace Theorem
1:14:47 The Nature of Fundamental Physics
1:18:40 Personal Identity in Many Worlds
1:27:14 Exploring Emergence
1:33:19 Thoughts on Consciousness
1:35:09 Disagreements with David Deutsch
1:39:18 Understanding Real Patterns
1:54:02 The Relevance-Limiting Thesis
2:00:54 Advice for Young Researchers
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2:19:33
The AI Math That Left Number Theorists Speechless
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Get ready to witness a turning point in mathematical history: in this episode, we dive into the AI breakthroughs that stunned number theorists worldwide. Join us as Professor Yang-Hue Hi discusses the murmuration conjecture, shows how DeepMind, OpenAI, and EpochAI are rewriting the rules of pure math, and reveals what happens when machines start making research-level discoveries faster than any human could. AI is taking us beyond proof straight into the future of discovery.
As a listener of TOE you can get a special 20% off discount to The Economist and all it has to offer! Visit https://www.economist.com/toe
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Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction to a New Paradigm
01:34 The Changing Landscape of Research
03:30 Categories of Machine Learning in Mathematics
06:53 Researchers: Birds vs. Hedgehogs
09:36 Personal Experiences with AI in Research
11:44 The Future Role of Academics
14:08 Presentation on the AI Mathematician
16:14 The Role of Intuition in Discovery
18:00 AI's Assistance in Vague Problem Solving
18:48 Newton and AI: A Historical Perspective
20:59 Literature Processing with AI
24:34 Acknowledging Modern Mathematicians
26:54 The Influence of Data on Mathematical Discovery
30:22 The Riemann Hypothesis and Its Implications
31:55 The BST Conjecture and Data Evolution
33:29 Collaborations and AI Limitations
36:04 The Future of Mathematics and AI
38:31 Image Processing and Mathematical Intuition
41:57 Visual Thinking in Mathematics
49:24 AI-Assisted Discovery in Mathematics
51:34 The Murmuration Conjecture and AI Interaction
57:05 Hierarchies of Difficulty
58:43 The Memoration Breakthrough
1:00:28 Understanding the BSD Conjecture
1:01:45 Diophantine Equations Explained
1:03:39 The Cubic Complexity
1:19:03 Neural Networks and Predictions
1:21:36 Breaking the Birch Test
1:24:44 The BSD Conjecture Clarified
1:26:21 The Role of AI in Discovery
1:30:29 The Memoration Phenomenon
1:32:59 PCA Analysis Insights
1:35:50 The Emergence of Memoration
1:38:35 Conjectures and AI's Role
1:41:29 Generalizing Biases in Mathematics
1:44:55 The Future of AI in Mathematics
1:49:28 The Brave New World of Discovery
Links Mentioned:
- Topology and Physics (book): https://amzn.to/3ZoneEn
- Machine Learning in Pure Mathematics and Theoretical Physics (book): https://amzn.to/4k8SXC6
- The Calabi-Yau Landscape (book): https://amzn.to/43DO7H0
- Yang-Hui’s bio and published papers: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Yang-Hui-He
- A Triumvirate of AI-Driven Theoretical Discovery (paper): https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.19973
- Edward Frenkel explains the Geometric Langlands Correspondence on TOE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX1tZv_Nv4Y
- Stone Duality (Wiki): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_duality
- Summer of Math Exposition: https://some.3b1b.co/
- Machine Learning meets Number Theory: The Data Science of Birch–Swinnerton-Dyer (paper): https://arxiv.org/pdf/1911.02008
- The L-functions and modular forms database: https://www.lmfdb.org/
- Epoch AI FrontierMath: https://epoch.ai/frontiermath/the-benchmark
- Mathematical Beauty (article): https://www.quantamagazine.org/mathematical-beauty-truth-and-proof-in-the-age-of-ai-20250430/
SUPPORT:
- Become a YouTube Member (Early Access Videos):
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SOCIALS:
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Exploring theoretical physics, consciousness, Ai, and God in a technically rigorous manner. If you'd like to support this endeavor, then please visit the Patreon ( https://patreon.com/curtjaimungal ). Thank you for your charitable and kindhearted support. My name's Curt Jaimungal, a Torontonian with a degree in mathematical physics from the University of Toronto and I analyze various Theories of Everything from this analytic perspective, though more and more opening up to alternative approaches. The separating factor of TOE from other podcasts is its focus on depth even at the risk of limiting the audience due to how much detail we delve into subjects. Paralleling the intensity found in academic discourse, we're increasingly embracing a spectrum of unconventional ideas to conduct research during this podcast, rather than merely conveying existing information. Contact toe [at] indiefilmTO [dot] com for business inquiries / sponsorship.
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