The Human Risk Podcast

What parts of yourself have you learned to hide in order to be taken seriously? My guest on this episode is Mark Heywood, a friend of the show, returning guest and someone I've collaborated with on a number of projects.

Episode Summary & Guest Profile
Mark has spent more than twenty years working in crisis management and operational resilience, while simultaneously building a successful career as a bestselling novelist, screenwriter and, more recently, stand-up comedian.

On the morning we recorded this conversation, Mark published an article marking his fifty-first birthday. In it, he reflected on the pressure many of us feel to present only one version of ourselves professionally, arguing that his creative and corporate lives were never really separate.

As he puts it, they were 'not two jobs, but one obsession wearing two different lanyards.' That simple idea becomes the starting point for a much wider discussion about the stories we tell ourselves, and the stories organisations tell themselves.

Along the way we explore:
Why "stay in your lane" may say more about other people's expectations than your own potential.
Why organisations often encourage people to bring their whole selves to work, while rewarding conformity.
What interviews, dress codes and organisational culture reveal about human behaviour.
Why stories often influence behaviour more effectively than rules, policies and frameworks.
What films can teach us about operational resilience, cybersecurity and crisis management.
Why the Titanic remains one of the most powerful lessons in organisational failure.
How imagination is a strategic capability rather than a soft skill.
Why thinking through "severe but plausible" scenarios requires organisations to become better storytellers.
Links
Mark's birthday article: "A Birthday Declaration from Someone Who Spent Over Twenty Years Pretending to Be Half of Himself" (LinkedIn)

Mark's Behind The Spine podcast

The Writing Salon

Behind The Spine podcast

Mark on LinkedIn

Mark's previous appearances on the show talking about The Creative Industries under COVID, and Human Risk in the Creative Industries

Films, Stories & People MentionedDie Hard  
Apollo 13 
The Martian 
The Odyssey (Christopher Nolan)
Don't Look Up
Snakes on a Plane 
Sharknado 
Noah's Ark 
RMS Titanic
Rachel Heyhoe Flint 
Jeremy King 

AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 – Why do we hide parts of ourselves to be taken seriously?

03:40 – Mark explains why he stopped separating his creative and corporate identities.

08:00 – Which hobbies and outside interests are considered professionally acceptable—and why?

10:30 – Job interviews, authenticity and bringing your whole self to work.

16:00 – Jeremy King on why behaviour matters more than dress codes.

19:00 – Rachel Heyhoe Flint, the MCC and what institutional rules reveal about culture.

23:00 – Why stories influence behaviour more effectively than rules.

24:00 – The Trojan Horse and using films to teach cybersecurity and resilience.

29:00 – The Titanic as a lesson in organisational resilience rather than maritime history.

32:00 – Conduct versus outcomes: why testing matters more than compliance.

36:00 – Using stories and popular culture to make risk real.

38:00 – Noah's Ark, history and the enduring power of storytelling.

40:30 – CrowdStrike, PPE and why organisations keep repeating the same mistakes.

46:00 – Stories aren't predictions—they're a way of exploring possibility.

49:00 – A ransomware exercise and the danger of relying on fixed policies.

52:00 – Returning to the Titanic: preparing for the inquiry before the crisis.

55:00 – Thinking like an attacker and challenging assumptions about cyber risk.

58:00 – Taylor Swift, insurance and why seemingly ordinary data can become highly sensitive.

1:02:00 – The idea of "risk inflation" and why yesterday's rules aren't enough.

1:10:00 – Why memorable stories change behaviour more effectively than realistic scenarios.

1:15:00 – Reverse stress testing and imagining what could really break an organisation.

1:20:00 – RAG ratings, reporting and the danger of looking resilient instead of being resilient.

1:23:00 – Final reflections on creativity, identity and why being more than one thing is a strength.

When something goes badly wrong, we investigate it. Reports are written. Recommendations are made. Lessons are identified. But do we actually learn them?

Episode Summary
Returning to the show, Gill Kernick joins me to discuss the substantially revised second edition of her book about the Grenfell Tower disaster, following the publication of the Grenfell Inquiry's final report. Gill has a unique perspective on Grenfell. She lived on the 21st floor of the tower before moving out three years before the fire. Professionally, she has spent decades helping organisations in high-hazard industries understand leadership, safety and major accidents.

When Gill first appeared on the podcast, the Inquiry was still underway. Seven years later, its conclusions have revealed an even more disturbing picture—not of one catastrophic mistake, but of systemic failure involving government, regulators, manufacturers, certification bodies and the construction industry.

But this episode isn't just about Grenfell. It's about why organisations struggle to learn from failure, why compliance isn't the same as understanding, why we crave simple explanations for complex problems, and why genuine learning is much harder than writing another report. If you haven't already listened to Gill's previous appearances on the podcast, I'd strongly recommend doing so. Together, the conversations chart how understanding evolves as new evidence emerges.

What you'll learn In this episode
In a wide-ranging discussion, we explore:
Why Gill decided to write a second edition after the Grenfell Inquiry concluded
The shocking scale of the systemic failures uncovered by the Inquiry
Why disasters rarely have a single root cause
The hidden dangers of deregulation and "compliance theatre"
Why organisations identify lessons but rarely learn them
The importance of understanding the spirit—not just the letter—of regulation
Why complexity requires different kinds of leadership
How AI might help organisations learn lessons in real time
Why hope is, as Gill puts it, "an act of resistance"
AI-Generated.Timestamp Summary
00:00 – Do we really learn lessons from disasters?
02:45 – Gill's personal connection to Grenfell Tower
05:15 – Why the second edition became necessary after the Inquiry 
06:30 – The Inquiry's most shocking findings
10:00 – When regulators knew the risks—but failed to act
12:00 – Implicit trust and why we rely on systems we don't understand
13:00 – Deregulation and the unintended consequences of political narratives
17:00 – Compliance versus understanding the intent behind regulation
20:00 – Why regulations struggle to keep pace with technology and complexity
24:00 – Hope as an act of resistance 25:00 – Why we don't actually learn lessons 
27:00 – Is a seven-year inquiry too long?
33:00 – Why "post-Grenfell" reforms miss the real point
37:00 – Communities of grief and change 
39:00 – Why Gill rewrote the book instead of writing a new one
44:00 – How the experience changed Gill's own thinking 
50:00 – Speaking up in ways that actually get heard
53:30 – Practical advice for learning in complex systems
55:00 – "Lessons learning" instead of "lessons learned" 
59:00 – Final reflections

Links
Gill's website, The Grenfell Enquirer

Her book 'Catastrophe & Systemic Change'

Gill's LinkedIn: 

Her previous show appearancesGill Kernick on the Grenfell Tower Disaster — Part One
Gill Kernick on the Grenfell Tower Disaster — Part Two
Topics discussedGrenfell Tower Inquiry – Final Report
The Grenfell Enquirer (articles and resources)
Arup's Building Safety Change Framework
People and ideas mentionedDave Snowden (Cognitive Edge)
Cynefin Framework overview
Background incidents referencedPiper Alpha disaster (Encyclopaedia Britannica)
Lakanal House fire (Wikipedia)
Deepwater Horizon oil spill (Encyclopaedia Britannica)

What does jazz singing have to do with LinkedIn? More than you might think.

This week's guest, Anna Rössler, has built a career helping senior leaders find their voice online while simultaneously developing her own as a singer-songwriter. Rather than separating her professional and creative identities, Anna has found a way to bring them together, and in doing so offers some valuable lessons about authenticity, confidence and human connection. 

We explore why so much online content feels performative, how AI is changing the way we communicate, and why the best personal brands aren't really about branding at all. Along the way we discuss experimentation, creativity, stage fright, networking, and the importance of building a life around the things that genuinely energise you.

Whether you're trying to communicate more effectively at work, build a presence online, or simply find more balance between your career and your passions, there's plenty to take away from this conversation.

Episode Summary
On this episode, we discuss:
Why authenticity is more than simply 'being yourself.'
How personal branding is really about building trust.
Why social media should be treated as a conversation, not a broadcast.
The hidden metrics that matter more than likes and impressions.
How to use AI without losing your own voice.
Why experimentation beats chasing algorithms.
What performing music teaches us about confidence and communication.
How side passions can make us better professionals.
Why designing your environment is often more important than motivation.
The value of creating a life that gives you energy instead of draining it.
Guest Profile
Anna Rössler is a marketing and LinkedIn specialist who helps organisations and senior leaders communicate more effectively through content and personal branding. Alongside her marketing career, she's an accomplished jazz and pop vocalist, songwriter and performer.

Her work sits at the intersection of communication, creativity and authenticity, helping people find a voice that genuinely sounds like them—whether they're posting on LinkedIn or performing on stage.

Follow Anna on LinkedIn and on her personal website.

What happens when two people who spend their careers thinking about human behaviour meet in a London pub and start complaining about conferences? Apparently, they decide to organise one.

Episode Summary
In this episode I'm joined by David Grosse, founder of behavioural risk advisory firm Behavor, to talk about The Unconvention, an event we're creating together that aims to rethink how conversations about risk, culture and human behaviour actually happen. But this isn't just an episode about an event.

David and I explore why organisations continue to treat behavioural risk as a niche topic, despite human decision-making sitting at the heart of almost every organisational failure. We discuss why so many conferences on culture and conduct feel formulaic, why measuring culture through board packs can miss the point entirely, and why stories often reveal far more than statistics ever can.

Along the way we touch on Silicon Valley Bank, Plato's Cave, behavioural science, organisational culture, productive discomfort, and why the best events might leave you with fewer certainties than when you arrived.

If you're curious about The Unconvention, or simply interested in why we think there has to be a better way to have these conversations, I hope you'll enjoy listening.

Links
David on LinkedIn 
David's company Behavor 
The Unconvention Website and ticketing site.
AI-Generated Timestamped summary
00:00 – Christian introduces the episode and explains how a conversation in a London pub led to the creation of The Unconvention.

02:20 – David shares his journey from chartered accountant and banker to behavioural risk specialist, and explains why human behaviour became the focus of his work.

05:30 – Why behavioural risk still isn't taken as seriously as other forms of risk, despite sitting behind so many organisational failures.

11:30 – Christian and David discuss what's wrong with many industry conferences, from scripted panels to sponsor-led agendas, and why they rarely change anyone's thinking.

18:00 – The conversation turns to culture, governance and why dashboards and board packs can never fully capture human behaviour.

24:30 – Stories, rather than statistics alone, often provide the richest insights into how organisations really work.

29:00 – The origins of The Unconvention and the principles behind creating an event that deliberately breaks with conference convention

35:30 – Why attendees are being invited to help shape the event, and how behavioural thinking has influenced everything from the format to the ticketing model.

42:00 – Christian and David discuss what they hope participants will take away: curiosity, productive discomfort and conversations that continue long after the event ends.

48:45 – Final details on The Unconvention, where to find David, and the unexpectedly simple story behind the name "Behavor".

Why is it so hard to stop people playing vides, music or phone calls out loud on public transport — and what does that tell us about changing human behaviour?

Show Summary
This episode of The Human Risk Podcast is a little different. It is a cross-cast from The Freewheeling Podcast, hosted by Thomas Ableman, in which I join Thomas to tackle a problem raised by the show's most important listener: his mum.

The issue? People using phones, videos, music and speaker calls out loud on trains and buses. What begins as a seemingly small transport etiquette problem quickly becomes a much bigger conversation about social norms, antisocial behaviour, customer experience, incentives, enforcement and the limits of signage. In our discussion, we explore why simply telling people to stop may not work, how reactance can make things worse, and why transport operators need to think more creatively about behaviour change.

Along the way, we consider quiet carriages, “electronic entertainment carriages”, cheap headphones, better-targeted messaging, staff intervention, social media campaigns and the wider question of whether public transport operators are responsible for the behaviour of the humans they carry.

The Freewheeling Podcast
The Freewheeling Podcast  is a show for transport change-makers. It explores how we can move forwards faster, bringing listeners fresh voices, new ideas and unconventional thinking.
While it has a strong focus on transport and mobility, the show also ranges into entrepreneurship, politics, public policy, cities and how systems can be designed to work better for the people who use them.

Links
The Freewheeling Podcast - https://www.freewheeling.info/the-freewheeling-podcast
Thomas on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomasableman/