Face-Off: The U.S. vs China

As this episode is published - on April 21, 2026 -  it’s far from clear which direction the war between the US and Iran is headed. Even so, America’s reputation around the world is in decline, to say the least.

Trump is unrestrained.  He’s invaded Venezuela. Started a war like no other with Iran. Soured relations with traditional US allies in Europe. And not to mention the heavy tariffs he’s imposed across the globe. 

Trump and Xi Jinping are supposed to meet in a delayed summit in Beijing this spring. What is Beijing thinking? How might China capitalize on this very rocky moment?

With so much at stake, we turn to someone who has often been at the forefront of diplomacy: Nicholas Burns, the former US Ambassador to China under President Biden.

Our conversation was recorded on April 10th, which is important to note as the news is moving fast, very fast. 

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Face-Off: The U.S. vs. China is produced in partnership with ⁠Rowhome Productions⁠.
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In this episode, we take you inside the Chinese internet. 

China is currently home to the world's most sophisticated, far-reaching internet censorship regime. Chinese censors are trained to comb the web for off-limits words and phrases. Offending posts often disappear into thin air. And entire US-based platforms like Google, Youtube, Instagram, and Amazon, not to mention the New York Times are all banned.

But it’s one thing to talk about the regime and another to live under it. That’s the subject of a great new book, The Wall Dancers: Searching for Freedom and Connection on the Chinese Internet by Yi-Ling Liu.  Yi-Ling is an American reporter based in Hong Kong. 

So today on Face-Off, we hand over the mic to our Associate Producer Frank Zhou for a fascinating conversation with Yi-Ling Liu. 

Guest: Yi-Ling Liu, Writer & Editor covering AI and Chinese society

Further Reading:

The Wall Dancers: Searching for Freedom and Connection on the Chinese Internet  https://www.yi-lingliu.com/the-wall-dancers

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Face-Off: The U.S. vs. China is produced in partnership with ⁠Rowhome Productions⁠.
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This week: China and Iran. 

The two countries have close ties and, yet, while China initially condemned the US-Israeli war on Iran, the Chinese government has stayed mostly quiet even as the bombing continues. 

Meanwhile the Iranian government is doubling down on this friendship. As of this taping,  Iran has opened up the Strait of Hormuz to Chinese ships.

To learn more about what this all means, Jane interviews Yun Sun, a Senior Fellow at the Stimson Center in Washington where she focuses on China’s relations with other authoritarian regimes. In her most recent article in Foreign Affairs - entitled “Why China Won’t Help Iran” - she points out that China is Iran’s most important partner in the Middle East. But she questions, how important is Iran to China? 

Guest: Yun Sun, Senior Fellow & Director of the China Program, Stimson Center 

Further Reading:

Why China Won’t Help Iran by Yun Sun, Foreign Affairs: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/china/why-china-wont-help-iran

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Face-Off: The U.S. vs. China is produced in partnership with ⁠Rowhome Productions⁠.
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In this episode, Journalist Barbara Demick talks with Jane about her latest book Daughters of the Bamboo Grove. It’s the story of Chinese twins separated as toddlers. One twin grows up with her family in rural China. The other twin is adopted by an American family in Texas. It’s a haunting, moving narrative about the harsh repercussions of the One-Child policy, and the realities of life in rural China and rural America.

Barbara and Jane know each other from their time together as reporters in China. They both lived in Beijing - Barbara the bureau chief for the Los Angeles Times, Jane the bureau chief of the New York Times. Jane thought of her as one of the bravest reporters - always fearless and open to getting the stories of real people. 

Daughters of the Bamboo Grove is another example of her excellent reporting and her unique ability to shine a light on the lives of ordinary people.

Guest: Barbara Demick, author & journalist, former bureau chief in Beijing for the Los Angeles Times 

Book Recommendations:

Daughter’s of the Bamboo Grove by Barbara Demick

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Face-Off: The U.S. vs. China is produced in partnership with ⁠Rowhome Productions⁠.
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We’re back! We’ll be publishing five brand new episodes of Face-Off bi-weekly starting today. In this episode, we welcome back Zhou Bo, a retired colonel in the People’s Liberation Army. 

Xi Jinping has unleashed a massive purge of the Chinese army, the biggest since the early days of Communist China. Nearly three dozen senior generals have been demoted or disappeared. Almost all have been accused of corruption. Then this past January the most senior general, General Zhang Youxia, essentially Xi Jinping's number two in the army, disappeared. 

No-one outside of China, and not many inside China, seem to know what’s going on. There's a reason the Chinese military is known as a black box. 

With Colonel Zhou, Jane discusses everything from Greenland to Taiwan to China’s military strength in the South China Sea. 

Guest: Zhou Bo, Retired Senior Colonel in the People’s Liberation Army

Book Recommendations:

Should The World Fear China by Zhou Bo

China’s Quest for Military Supremacy by Joel Wuthnow and Phillip Saunders

Face-Off: The U.S. vs. China is produced in partnership with ⁠Rowhome Productions⁠.
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