Ted is joined by Rob Harvilla, the host of the podcast 60 Songs That Explain the ’90s and a senior staff writer at The Ringer. A professional rock critic for 20-plus years, Rob has had stops at the Village Voice, SPIN, Deadspin, and various other alt-weeklies.His podcast, which has now moved beyond the 1990s to consider the music of the 2000s, was the basis for his 2023 book 60 Songs That Explain the ’90s. And as a regular listener of the show, Ted knows that in making it, Rob pens scripts that see him produce the same number of words as a novel roughly every eight to 10 episodes. It’s a writing feat that is equal parts distinctive and impressive—which of course meant Ted wanted to talk with him about it.Together, they discuss the premise and evolution of the podcast, how Rob approaches picking songs and artists to feature, and his surprise at how pieces of his personal life have found their way into his scripts. Using Miranda Lambert’s “The House That Built Me” as an example, he also gives us a look inside the shaping of an episode.He and Ted then dive into the relationship between lyrics and the vague legal requirements Rob has to meet to include clips of songs on the show as well as the challenge of not repeating himself across such a large body of written work. But they save perhaps the most important question for last:What does the term “classic rock” actually mean in 2025?Episode Links:Rob’s WebsiteRob’s PodcastWorking Drafts episodes and info for requesting transcripts as well as more details about Ted and his books are available on his website, thetedfox.com.
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32:34
Finding the Next Write Thing
Ted is joined by Dave Cohen, a writer, comedian, founding member of the Comedy Store Players, and one of the most respected teachers of comedy writing in the UK. A former standup comedian, he has written for radio and TV shows and is an eight-time BAFTA winner for his songs for the BBC hit Horrible Histories.Dave is also the author of the Barry Goldman novels, a series set in the world of the 1970s and ’80s British alternative comedy scene. The third and final book comes out in January, which means that the writing challenges of finishing the series are fresh in his mind even as he thinks about what he’d like to do next.That’s an interesting time to talk with any writer. Yet for Dave, who’s spent 40 years in comedy but always had an interest in being a novelist, it represents a particularly notable inflection point.He talks with Ted about the evolution of his fiction over the course of the three Barry Goldman books, the difference between writing comedy and pretty much everything else, and not knowing whether he wants to write more novels. That leads to a frank conversation between the two of them about navigating self-doubt and staying open to the new things that might fulfill us creatively.Episode Links:Stand Up, Barry Goldman (Book 1)Barry Goldman: The Wilderness Years (Book 2)Dave’s WebsiteWorking Drafts episodes and info for requesting transcripts as well as more details about Ted and his books are available on his website, thetedfox.com.
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34:28
Making Our Writing Good Company
In a different kind of episode, Ted is joined by Jim Lang, an emeritus professor of English at Assumption University and current professor of the practice at the University of Notre Dame’s Kaneb Center for Teaching Excellence.Jim is one of Ted’s favorite people to talk writing with in three-dimensional spaces—i.e., in-person, no internet connection needed—because he brings a teacher’s mentality to his work, which probably explains why he’s always up for a conversation about craft. And unlike Ted and most of the guests on this show, Jim writes nonfiction, including his seventh and most recent book, one that explores the writing process itself.Titled Write Like You Teach: Taking Your Classroom Skills to a Bigger Audience, it is a guide for academics that distills the elements of good classroom teaching into strategies for writing for the general public. But while the book is pitched at that those who teach in colleges and universities, the topics he digs into will resonate with anyone who tries to create engaging prose.Focusing on the book’s chapter on “Invitational Language,” Jim and Ted discuss challenging readers without alienating them, why the passive voice gets a worse rap than it deserves, and approaching your writing as an effort to be good company to your readers. Currently involved with a project on how AI might support teaching, Jim also shares his thoughts on AI’s relationship to writing: what it can and cannot do, the value of learning from other humans, and what we lose when we allow machines to choose words for us.Find Jim and his books online at jamesmlang.com.Working Drafts episodes and info for requesting transcripts as well as more details about Ted and his books are available on his website, thetedfox.com.
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31:25
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31:25
The Ellipses of History
Ted is joined by Nishant Batsha, whose second novel, A Bomb Placed Close to the Heart, was published this month by ecco/HarperCollins. He is also the author of Mother Ocean Father Nation (ecco/HarperCollins), which, among other honors, was named one of the best books of 2022 by NPR.Nishant holds a Ph.D. in history from Columbia University, so it’s no surprise that his fiction draws heavily on real-life people and events. He describes this latest book as a “socialist, anti-colonial coming-of-age love story set in 1917,” one that is loosely based on a real-life couple, M.N. Roy and Evelyn Trent, who together founded the Communist Party of Mexico before an acrimonious divorce led to Roy basically writing Trent out of the history of the movement they led together.With A Bomb Placed Close to the Heart now out in the world, Nishant is at work on his next book. He and Ted talk about the circuitous route he’s taken to get there, including an entire novel set in the present day that he finished writing before realizing he didn’t want to deviate from historical fiction.Nishant discusses being a historian who wanted to become a novelist (compared to the other way around) and what that means for the way he approaches his writing. He then shares details about his work in progress, which is told from the perspective of a Civil War veteran who has left society behind to join a Shaker colony in Maine. Find Nishant and his books at nishantbatsha.com.Working Drafts episodes and info for requesting transcripts as well as more details about Ted and his books are available on his website, thetedfox.com.
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35:34
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35:34
It’s All the In-Between Time
No guest this month, so Ted revisits a previous solo pod, during which he talked about the challenges of navigating the months in between when you submit your final manuscript and when the book actually comes out. In that episode, he shared how, for him, a big part of managing those challenges involves getting started on a new project.Well, it’s now been a year since that finished manuscript was published as his second novel, and the work in progress he introduced on that podcast is something he’s been wrestling with through a series of starts and stops for even longer. As a result, it’s probably a good moment to rethink what he previously referred to as “the in-between time.”Working Drafts episodes and info for requesting transcripts as well as more details about Ted and his books are available on his website, thetedfox.com.
Novelist/humorist/coffee enthusiast Ted Fox (SCHOOLED, DATE WEEK) talks with other writers about their work—not so much the books they’ve published (although those definitely come up) but more what they’re writing right now, aka their works in progress, their working drafts, their open Word documents making them want to throw their computers out a window. Covering the good, the bad, and the daunting word counts, these are conversations about the craft of writing meant to be both fun and helpful. New episodes released each month on the 15th.Are you a writer interested in coming on the show? Drop Ted a line through his website, thetedfox.com.
South Africa