The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast

Jon Zalar, founder of IWTG Consulting, joins to discuss broken blade bolts, cracked pitch bearings, loose root inserts, and early detection.

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Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining light on wind energy’s brightest innovators. This is the progress powering tomorrow

Allen Hall: Jon, welcome back to the program. 

Jon Zalar: Thanks for having me. 

Allen Hall: Uh, last time I saw you, we were in Melbourne- Yep … at WOMA 2026, and that was a huge event. We know we’re gonna do it again next year in March three, the 3rd through the 5th, so you’re invited back, of course- I can’t wait … if you can make it. Yeah. Yeah.

It’s gonna be, it’s gonna be a good time. A lot is happening in the blade world and in the wind turbine world more broadly. A lot of things we’re hearing right now are related to blade bolt connection, pitch bearing inserts still. A lot of that still happening in the United States. What is the current status of, uh, the blade connection issues in the US?

I, 

Jon Zalar: I feel like it’s a growing [00:01:00] issue, not super, super fast, but it seems to be getting a little worse. There’s, you know, more bolts breaking at that joint. Um, pitch bearing cracks are, seem to be pretty common. There’s different solutions for it, and then, you know, the root inserts are another thing that we’ve talked about before that seem to be happening more and more, or maybe more and more people are finding them ’cause they’re looking.

Allen Hall: What are the first indications that you have a blade bolt or some sort of joint issue at the root of a blade? What can you see? 

Jon Zalar: A bolt laying in the hub bouncing around. Um, you know, from like a– looking at it from, like, the sensors on the turbine, it’s really hard to tell unless it gets really bad. Uh, some of the OEMs have some analytics developed to kinda start to indicate if there is a aero change because there’s missing bolts or root inserts are coming out, and they’re using that as a way to go figure out which ones to go inspect first.

Allen Hall: Really? Yeah. You think [00:02:00] the SCADA data will give you some indication that you have a, basically a little bit of a loose blade? 

Jon Zalar: Yeah. I, I, I think because the number of turbines and the number of data points you have, I think there is a pretty good analytic out there right now. 

Allen Hall: Wow. All right. I think a lot of our operators have not taken advantage of that.

Is, is that just b- based on the high-speed data, SCADA data, or is it low-speed data you could see that same effect? 

Jon Zalar: I believe it’s on the low-speed data as well, but I bet the high-speed data was used to kinda develop it. 

Allen Hall: Wow. All right. So that’s a huge help to operators. Yeah. So what are you looking for if you’re looking through SCADA data, what would be the couple of markers there that say, “Hey, maybe we ought to go look up at the– in the hub”?

Jon Zalar: I don’t know exactly what they’re using, but they would basically look for maybe an imbalance or looking for certain components that are being overworked. 

Allen Hall: Oh, sure. Okay. 

Jon Zalar: Yeah. 

Allen Hall: So your pitch actuator may be getting a little bit overworked. It would seem like one of the places- I think that, yeah … that would get loaded, right?

Jon Zalar: Mm-hmm. 

Allen Hall: Okay. [00:03:00] And any vibration monitoring going on? Because it, it, uh, in some cases you’re– I’m hearing, like, millimeter gaps- 

Jon Zalar: Correct. Yeah … 

Allen Hall: between the blade and the pitch bearing. 

Jon Zalar: So probably a combination of the ALC sensors, at least on a GE turbine, looking at that. But the PCH box also is looking at the tower vibration, so it could be a combination of all three.

I don’t know the exact- Okay … details, but between all of that, I think there are some analytics that kinda say, “Hey, go take a look.” And then I think there’s some other companies that have- tools that go monitor it. 

Allen Hall: Mm-hmm. 

Jon Zalar: Dial indicators remotely or even, you know, people going up there with dial indicators to go kind of rotate the rotor and kind of see if there is gapping between the blade and the pitch bearing.

Allen Hall: Is that a safe situation in your– from the gapping? I’ve heard this where they’ve basically took shims and they’re trying to measure this gap or some sort of dial indication. Is that a smart thing to do? Is it even reliable to do it that way? [00:04:00]

Jon Zalar: I, I, I think there’s some reliability there. And like, you know, these are really big parts, right?

So like a little bit of gap, it, it’s probably expected to a point, but growing gaps is where you should be a little more scared. 

Allen Hall: So you’re– you would have to go do that quarterly, monthly, weekly? How, how often would you have to do it to see the progression? Because I’ve heard stories of, uh, a couple of weeks from nothing to hub crack to, “Oh, it took a year or more.”

Jon Zalar: I think it depends on the issue. I think for– if you’re looking at that, the bolted joint itself between the root inserts and the, uh, bolts breaking itself, I, I think they’re doing about quarterly. Now, the pitch bearings inspections are also quarterly. They’re al- they’re, they’re leveraging the drone inspections for the blades, and they’re looking at the pitch bearings to see if they’re cracked, right?

Uh, you guys are doing that too. 

Allen Hall: Okay. 

Jon Zalar: I think Coraly is doing a good job mitigating the risk, feels like. 

Allen Hall: Wow. All right. [00:05:00] Yolanda, looking at pitch bearings, you’ve looked at a lot of drone images in your lifetime. Mm-hmm. How much can you see on drone images on pitch bearings? Can you see cracks and, or y- or do you see grease, which is a really indication that something is wrong in the bearing?

Yolanda Padron: You can see grease. You can see the cracks pretty, pretty well. Yeah. The drone images are, are really high quality. Uh, but you did mention that it’s something that you’re seeing a lot more. Is it because there’s a lot more aging fleets, or is it a problem with a lot of the new turbines that are coming online?

Jon Zalar: I, I think it’s an, I think it’s a more of a fatigue problem, so the aging of the fleet. And also, I think more people are looking at it, right? ‘Cause, like, initially the drones that were looking for blade cracks weren’t looking at pitch bearings, but then pitch bearings started cracking, so now they added that to whatever they buy off the drone companies, right?

Go look at my pitch bearings, for example. 

Allen Hall: Hmm. 

Jon Zalar: So I, I think it’s a problem of the more you look sometimes, the more you find. 

Yolanda Padron: Hmm. 

Jon Zalar: Yeah. 

Allen Hall: So we [00:06:00] have root insert issues, which are being addressed by a couple of different companies- Yes … uh, uh, with somewhat similar solutions. OEM is offering one right now also.

Jon Zalar: I, I think there’s three solutions. There’s two uptower that are basically looking at ways to go fill the void between the root insert itself and the blade root. Um, and I– there’s another company that’s also more of a downtower solution where they’re actually, like, r- drilling out the root inserts and putting new ones in that are gonna last better, longer.

Allen Hall: Okay. So the drilling out is, would be CNC onsite. Correct. 

Jon Zalar: Yeah. 

Allen Hall: And they’re based over in Europe. But th- the drilling out is a take the blade down, set it on the ground sort of- Yeah. Right … doing really fine machining on the, on the blade itself. So that, that’s a different, completely different insert that’s going into that- 

Jon Zalar: Correct

Allen Hall: new hole or- Yep … clean hole, right? So it’s a, just a, uh, totally different kind of product versus trying to inject [00:07:00] some s- sort of epoxy or resin into the, the void. 

Jon Zalar: Right. Yeah. Uh, I mean, you would prefer to do it uptower. It’s gonna cost you less money. 

Allen Hall: Sure. 

Jon Zalar: But you wanna make sure you do it right, so I think, uh, I do foresee it being a combination of both solutions kinda going forward.

Allen Hall: Is it dependent upon, like, how much damage has been already done, or what the fatigue w- uh, an estimate on what the fatigue life is? 

Jon Zalar: I think it’s strictly on measurement perspective right now. So how much gapping you have, um, kinda determines what potential solutions you have. 

Allen Hall: So the gaps aren’t big, right?

So the, the gaps I hear are one millimeter is k- kind of sort of start a problem. 

Jon Zalar: Mm-hmm. 

Allen Hall: Three millimeters is, “I need to be making decisions.” 

Jon Zalar: Yeah. So- That, that’s what I’ve heard, too. Yes. 

Allen Hall: Three millimeters is about a eighth of an inch. 

Jon Zalar: Mm-hmm. 

Allen Hall: So it’s not a lot of m- 

Jon Zalar: But you can see sunlight through it if you’re s- down there.

Allen Hall: Okay. That’s not… Well, you should see. That’s not 

Jon Zalar: good either. Yeah. 

Allen Hall: Right. Okay. So in a, in a three millimeter situation then, you’re doing what? [00:08:00]

Jon Zalar: You’re trying to decide if the uptower solutions are something you wanna go try, ’cause they’re still in the trial mode from my understanding or- 

Allen Hall: Okay … 

Jon Zalar: people are learning a lot.

So I think when you get to that point, you’re calling some of those companies to say, “Hey, I have this issue. I got a couple blades with, you know, .3. Can you guy- you guys wanna come take a look at it, see if your solutions, if you guys wanna go use it or not?” And then I think the ones that get too bad, from my understanding right now, is they’re, they’re replacing the blades.

Allen Hall: So they’re taking the whole blade down. 

Jon Zalar: Yes. 

Allen Hall: And what’s the thought process in that? Uh, versus drilling out the inserts and putting new inserts in. Is there just a composite degradation that’s happened around those joints that it just puts it at risk or, or you have actually aged the blade much faster than you would otherwise have done?

Jon Zalar: I, I think they aged that particular connection too much. So I, I- Wow … either between the [00:09:00] fatigue or lack of epoxy resin, w- whatever the actual root cause is for that root insert coming out, when it gets that bad, it’s like you’re not gonna be able to inject enough To make it adhere 

Allen Hall: You can’t de-age it.

Jon Zalar: Correct. 

Allen Hall: Right? 

Jon Zalar: Yeah. 

Allen Hall: Bring back the youthfulness of the blade. Wow. All right. And we have seen this worldwide. I know in the, in the States you hear about it all the time, but it, this seems to be not a US- Correct … problem. 

Jon Zalar: It’s a worldwide problem, yes. 

Allen Hall: Okay. So if, if it’s a worldwide problem, are there more solutions on the way?

I know you talked about three of them already. 

Jon Zalar: I have not heard of any other ones except those three as of today. 

Allen Hall: Wow. 

Jon Zalar: There could be other people working on it. I think there should be. 

Allen Hall: So, yeah. You would think so, yeah. So we’ll, I guess we’ll eventually hear about it on the podcast. Usually people with technology will contact us.

They might call, 

Jon Zalar: yeah. They might call you, they might call you tomorrow. 

Allen Hall: Sure, they may. So that leads to sort of a subsequent issue, which I think is getting grouped together. So the [00:10:00] hub crack, pitch bearing crack, root insert pullout issue is also discussed with blade bolts being broken. 

Jon Zalar: Correct. 

Allen Hall: Are they related or are they separate engineering problems?

Jon Zalar: If you look at them individually, you’d probably come up with some separate answers, but if you combine them all together, you kind of start looking at is there too much loading happening in the leading and trailing edge of the blade? ‘Cause the hub cracks, the root inserts, and the blade bolts, from my understanding, are happening at those two highly loaded areas of the, the blade or that whole rotor connection.

So I mean, I do feel the root cause is probably a little higher loads than anticipated. 

Allen Hall: I think everybody’s talked about when they’ve done the injection method and the drilling method, all they’re discussing is leading edge, trailing edge. 

Jon Zalar: Yes. 

Allen Hall: And how– It’s a question of how many- Correct … are you gonna replace.

So th- [00:11:00] that’s, those are the two highly loaded spots on the bolted connection. 

Jon Zalar: Correct. 

Allen Hall: And that’s where blade bolts are also breaking or, or the bolts breaking elsewhere around the periphery? 

Jon Zalar: I don’t have all the data, but what I had seen, it’s very similar areas. 

Allen Hall: So if you don’t pull the insert out, you’re then loading the bolt.

Cr- Right It’s one or the other, right? Right. Yeah. So the, the, the load path is the load path, so it’s coming through the insert into the bolt. Bolt’s carrying it into the pitch bearing. Pitch bearing’s carrying it into the hub. 

Jon Zalar: Correct. 

Allen Hall: Hub carrying it downtower. So eventually, one of those, uh, links in the chain is- The weakest.

Yeah … is, is the le- is the weakest. What is it about blade bolts that is so dangerous? We hear– we walk onsite to an O&M building, there are signs saying, you know, “Pay attention for loose bolts. Look around on the ground for loose bolts.” We’re gonna– and as electrical engineer, like, “Whoa.” Bolts should not be falling out of this tower.

What i- what is that sort of sequence where a [00:12:00] bolt would escape from the nacelle? 

Jon Zalar: So let’s just use one bolt. One bolt breaks, falls in the hub, bouncing around, doing some– potentially doing some damage inside the hub. And ’cause these turbines, you don’t need to go out there every day ’cause they do run pretty good, right?

Right. You just do your regular maintenance. And if you don’t really know about that, ’cause, like, it bounces around for a while, then it usually gets, like, lodged behind a, uh, either center box or pitch cabinet or actually in the front sometimes. Kinda don’t know it happened. But, you know, frees itself up, keeps bouncing around, it, it could escape through the hatch covers ’cause, you know, people have to get into the hub anyway.

And I’m sure a lot of people listening here that have sites, like, you know, probably found some bolts laying on the ground, which is a little scary. 

Allen Hall: Right. So is, is the busting the hatch opening levers? I know there, there’s a couple different ways to get into that hatch. Yeah. But, uh, is it just completely busting the hatch?

Yeah. So it’s– [00:13:00] okay. So you see a– so if you see a loose hatch panel, you have an issue. You probably gotta be careful about coming up on that turbine? 

Jon Zalar: Potentially. A lot, a lot of hatches are, you know, not always maintained well. 

Allen Hall: Right. I’ve seen them, I’ve seen loose ones, yeah. 

Jon Zalar: Yeah. 

Allen Hall: Okay. So that, that would be a sign that– but though if, if you’re approaching a turbine, one look on the ground.

And Yolando, you, you’ve seen a lot of turbines. So are you, are we looking on the ground and seeing what’s around the turbine before we approach the turbine now? Yeah. Just, just a sanity check? 

Yolanda Padron: Yeah. Be aware also of what’s happening on site, right? Because if it’s some- if it’s a problem on site, you need to be extra careful when you’re approaching any turbine there.

Uh, is it something that people maybe should start thinking about implementing, like, a sensors earlier on than when they’re seeing the issue actually happen? 

Jon Zalar: Yeah. I, I, I think that’s a potential, ’cause it, the quicker you catch it, the less damage you’re gonna do, and it also reduce the risk of [00:14:00] it, um, falling out of the hub And I’ve worked with a couple of my, uh, customers for some, like, potential ways to detect it.

Still kind of trialing it right now. But I, I do think there’s gonna be some benefit from a safety reduction, but also from a strictly a damage. ‘Cause, like, you get a couple bolts bouncing around there, and you bang up some cabinets or some pitch motors, that’s expensive and hard to go fix. 

Yolanda Padron: Yeah, we were talking about it earlier too.

Like, it goes down, it can hit a transformer, it can hit, like, a truck or someone. 

Jon Zalar: Chance of it hitting someone. Yeah. I mean, I don’t care what hard hat you have on, it’s not gonna do anything. 

Yolanda Padron: Yeah. 

Allen Hall: So what kind of sensor should you be putting onto the turbine if you don’t have access to the SCADA data or you don’t know what the correct algorithm is to suss out there’s something wrong up there?

But a, a bolt breaking is not gonna be something that a SCADA would even pick up, I don’t think. One bolt out of the whole- Yeah. No. 

Jon Zalar: No way. Okay. I mean, there’s a– I think there’s, like, [00:15:00]one company looking at more of a, like, mechanical way to, like, prevent the bolt from coming out. I forgot the name of it.

Allen Hall: Okay. 

Jon Zalar: Um, and then what I was looking at was more of a, like, you know, microphone type detection to kind of listen for that. 

Allen Hall: It would make a lot of noise. 

Jon Zalar: Yeah. It seems like it works. It, um, yeah, still more development needed on my end. 

Allen Hall: So- The engineer in me was, is saying, “Why are we not putting strain gauges on bolts?”

I picked on the leading and the trailing. It’s like right dead center there to look at, even if it’s just two strain gauge bolts to see what the loads are. 

Jon Zalar: So like there are s- there are bolts that are, or that are made with the strain gauges built in that you can use to go, you know, monitor that. But you also need to understand like what was the design intent.

So unless you’re working with the OEM, you don’t really know what you’re seeing is good or bad. You just say, “Oh- 

Allen Hall: You just see a number. 

Jon Zalar: Yeah. Right. I mean like, and if you install, I don’t know, four, you’d be like, “All right. Leading and trailing edge are higher [00:16:00] than the other two.” Well, yeah, it’s supposed to be, but like is a 10% difference expected or not expected?

Allen Hall: Is that something where if you’re, especially if you’re in a full service agreement, and a lot of these turbines are- Yeah … for the first couple of years, if you were to do that, it’s something you would just say to the OEM, “Hey, this is, these are the loads we’re seeing from the strain gauges on these bolts.

Does this make sense to you?” Or, or would an OEM just not even respond to that kind of inquiry? 

Jon Zalar: I mean, I think it’s all about relationship with the OEM. I, I, I think 

Allen Hall: it- I think they would wanna know. 

Jon Zalar: I have a feeling they probably are looking. 

Allen Hall: Okay. 

Jon Zalar: I mean, ’cause I mean they have the test turbines too that they probab- that, that I know they have instrumented heavily.

Allen Hall: Yeah. So they, they’re probably getting at least some feedback. Th- that’s the problem. Yeah. And you worked on the other side, right? I have. So you worked for an OEM doing the RTAs. The first problem is you don’t have data, so now you gotta go get the data. 

Jon Zalar: Correct. 

Allen Hall: And that data is not available tomorrow. No.

‘Cause you’re gonna have to go run some sort of design of experiment to go figure out if [00:17:00] there is even a true problem or even what the root causes could be. 

Jon Zalar: And it, and it’s expensive to go instrument a blade and get the data back at the right speed and connected to the turbine data. I mean, I rem- I, I used to say it’s about like 300 to 500,000 to go put a couple gauges on a blade just with all the equipment you need to get the data correct.

Allen Hall: To get the right data. 

Jon Zalar: Get the right data at the right frequency connected to the controller. It’s, it’s very expensive. 

Allen Hall: Wow. Okay. Yeah. I, I don’t, I don’t see a lot of operators doing that. 

Jon Zalar: And especially connecting it to the operating data, right? So like if you go put a strain gauge and I don’t know, you’re curtailed, you’re only making, I don’t know, a megawatt- Doesn’t matter.

And if you don’t know what the turbine’s doing and you’re looking at this, like, strain gauge data, it’s really hard to correlate anything. 

Allen Hall: So you need a full suite of data. Yeah. That includes weather data- Yeah … at some level, right? Gust winds and- Oh, 

Jon Zalar: yeah … 

Allen Hall: average wind speed. You need the anemometer. You need which, which way [00:18:00] the n- cell’s pointing.

Y- uh, you would need a lot of information- And what the controller’s- … to even suss it out … 

Jon Zalar: and what the controller’s doing, right? Right. ‘Cause, like, every turbine, the controller’s trying to, like, you know, balance the rotor the whole time. It’s trying to, you know, micro pitch depending on what the winds are doing.

And if you don’t know what all that stuff’s doing, like, it’s really hard to correlate a strain gauge measurement to is that bad or not. 

Allen Hall: It’s a complicated problem. 

Jon Zalar: Yes. That’s why RCAs take, you know, a long time, and they’re not done in two weeks. 

Allen Hall: No, they’re done in a year. 

Jon Zalar: Yeah. 

Allen Hall: Typically, or longer. So what should an operator be thinking about now?

If, if we s- get our drone images back, we’re scanning through them like, “Oh, there’s a crack” What am I doing next besides calling you and connecting to your LinkedIn page? 

Jon Zalar: So right now with the pitch bearing crack, um, some of the OEMs are providing stiffener plates to put over the crack and try to run it.

Allen Hall: So that’s a doubler plate, basically. A double plate. Doubler 

Jon Zalar: plate, yes. [00:19:00]

Allen Hall: Yeah. Okay. So even in a, in a crack scenario, that pitch bearing, if given mechanical support, can run like that? 

Jon Zalar: That’s my understanding, yes. That, that potentially could run for some period of time. I don’t know if it’ll make it 20 years or not, but it’ll buy you time for sure.

Allen Hall: Does that involve a crane to do that work or is that just… My recollection, that was in pieces, like there, it’s not a ring, it’s a, a couple of pieces that you’d be able to bolt on without taking the- 

Jon Zalar: No, it’s a- … blade down … it’s a, it’s a single piece that- 

Allen Hall: It’s like a single casting kind of thing. 

Jon Zalar: Right. And I, I think you need some like small crane, like a jig crane or one of those- 

Allen Hall: Just to support the blade while you do it?

Jon Zalar: And to go put it in, right. Okay. Yeah, I don’t think, you’re not taking the blade off. You’re not taking the 

Allen Hall: blade down. 

Jon Zalar: Correct. Yeah. It’s, it’s done with the blade up there. 

Allen Hall: Okay. 

Jon Zalar: You’re putting new, putting longer studs in and putting the plate on. 

Allen Hall: So first step is let’s get the joint reinforced. Right.

That’s the easy first step. 

Jon Zalar: Right. Although there has been some cases where since [00:20:00]you’ve put that stiffener plate on, the loads get spread out to the end of the plate, and then you- Sure … you could see cracks there. 

Allen Hall: Okay. All right. So the loads- It, that- … have to go somewhere … 

Jon Zalar: loads have to go somewhere. That’s, that is a bottom line.

Allen Hall: All right. So you’re just changing where the load path is, so you have to be cognizant of that. Okay. Sure. Fine. But if you have, uh, especially in the United States, you don’t have 10 of these turbines, you have 50, 100- 100 … 200, 300 of these things, or thousands as it, as it turns out. Are there simple solutions that can be applied to, just to give me a sense, like that turbine’s having a problem, but the one next to it’s not, and, and just, just from a maintenance spin standpoint where I’m not just blanketing everything and trying to do everything to all these turbines at once, how do I, how do I manage this?

Jon Zalar: I, I think it’s like being very observant. So like, you know, making sure you’re looking at the pitch bearings from the drone images, right? Um, also talking [00:21:00] to your maintenance people like, “Hey, are, are you finding a bunch of broken bolts? Like, what positions?” Like, you know, if I was back at the OEM, I would like to have as much data as possible on this issue.

Like how many bolts are, when did you find them, what positions? A lot of times we, when I was there, like we would not get all that information, so it’s like really hard to run an RCA without that information. 

Allen Hall: Sure. Yeah, where did this bolt break in the ring? 

Jon Zalar: Right. 

Allen Hall: Could tell you a lot. Is it just a b- bad lot of bolts, or is it something more load related?

Jon Zalar: Correct. 

Allen Hall: Wow. Okay. 

Yolanda Padron: Yeah, I think that’s a really good point, too, to make sure that you’re connected with like every stage of the operations. ‘Cause I know that everybody’s obviously really, really busy on a wind farm, but it’s really common for like an engineer to have certain data and the site team to just be running around and having a lot of data, but maybe they don’t realize that, oh, it’s important to know how many bolts per tower are coming down.

Jon Zalar: Correct. Yeah 

Allen Hall: That’s a lot of work 

Jon Zalar: It definitely- 

Allen Hall: It’s a tremendous effort if you’re gonna [00:22:00] go after this problem and, and solve it RCS 

Jon Zalar: are hard. They 

Allen Hall: are. Yeah. All of it. Yeah. Machines are complicated today. There’s a lot of computer-driven s- things about them, and then you have these loading issues, and you have composite materials.

Th- there’s just, y- 

Jon Zalar: you got to get- It’s a very complex 

Allen Hall: It’s a machine, right? Yeah. It’s a complex machine. So how do people reach out to… You’re, you’re the head of IWTG, which is based in South Carolina, but you do consulting worldwide. Yes. And, and you are a huge resource because you understand the complexities of these problems.

How do people get ahold of you and, and get something started if they have a, a, a blade bolt issue or an insert issue or a cracked pitch bearing? Where do they start? 

Jon Zalar: They can send me an email, jzalar@iwtgconsulting.com. 

Allen Hall: Okay. And you have a great LinkedIn page, so you can connect with you on LinkedIn. 

Jon Zalar: Yes.

Yeah, I have one 

Allen Hall: of those. Yes. Or you could just come to WOMA in [00:23:00]2027. Yeah. You can. You can meet John there and, and arrange everything there. So John, it’s great to see you, and thank you for coming up. We, uh, we’re recording this at the world headquarters of Weather Guard Lightning Tech, and, uh, John just lives down the street in, in, in US terms.

Yeah. So it’s, it’s great to have John come and visit us up here in North Carolina. So John, thank you so much for joining us. 

Jon Zalar: Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

A V236 blade fails during construction at He Dreiht. Plus a 53 GW US wind forecast, Suzlon’s record quarter, and what turbine noise really measures.

Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!

The Uptime Wind Energy podcast, brought to you by StrikeTape. Protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit striketape.com. And now your hosts

Allen Hall: Welcome to the “Uptime Wind Energy” podcast. I’m your host, Allen Hall, and I’m here with Matthew Stead, Yolanda Padron, and Rosemary Barnes. And to lead off this week, s- there’s been some trouble in the North Sea. On July 22nd, a blade failed on one of the turbines at EnBW’s 960-megawatt He Dreiht offshore wind farm.

Uh, EnBW spokesperson said there were no injuries, thank goodness, and that the authorities were notified immediately, which is generally the case in Europe. They’re very safety conscious, of course. But the machine was a Vestas V236, which is a– that 15-megawatt offshore turbine that Vestas is offering. And He Dreiht is where the platform [00:01:00] has made its debut.

So Vestas and EnBW are working together on an investigation, an RCA, a- along, uh, looking at the environmental impact because parts of the blade landed in the water. And the, the images I saw online were like a sheer web that was being pulled in onto a ship, so big pieces of blade. Uh, there’s gonna be 64 of these turbines going into that wind farm, but this is probably a little bit of a weird thing because it does seem like that the wind farm is under construction when the blade broke, which is not the first time this has happened, right?

That we’ve seen blade breaks at, uh, Vineyard Wind and at Dogger Bank on the GE side. Is this just a construction issue, Yolanda, you think? Or is it some sort of, uh, vibration that’s happening during construction that’s putting extra stress on the blades? 

Yolanda Padron: We were talking about it a little bit offline and how it might be a loading [00:02:00] issue because it’s not, uh, it’s not in the optimal operating, uh, conditions, right?

Uh, but this is– It’s– I don’t like that it’s becoming a trend more than an anomaly from what we’ve seen on this podcast. Uh, Matt, I know you work a lot in solutions, right? What, what would you recommend people start doing? 

Matthew Stead: Yeah. I think, um, more and more there’s ways of just checking out, you know, pre-construction, um, you know, some of the vibration modes, some of the unusual, um, wind loading when it’s in standstill, you know, different yaw angles and so forth.

So there, there’s more and more ways of, um, checking out what the blade is doing when it’s in those unusual, um, sort of pre-con, pre-operation phases. So, um, you know, for instance, um, we do know that there is some sort of sometimes edgewise or flatwise vibration, which, um, you know, maybe is not normal, um, and maybe could be, be [00:03:00] thought about in a bit more detail.

Um, certainly I know there are some research organizations which are looking into this and also, you know, things like blade twists. Um, so what is actually happening in terms of the, um, the twisting of the blade along, along its axis. 

Allen Hall: I think the last time this happened, I remember going back and looking at patents about how to protect the blades during this construction phase.

So you wanna prevent the blade from generating lift from sideways winds pretty much. So the designs that I saw were like putting like a, a netting across the blade to disrupt the airflow so that it wouldn’t generate lift. But I haven’t really seen that implemented. Maybe it is being implemented, but these loads are a little odd, right?

I, I, I’m wondering if there’s any IEC certification test that looks into them, uh, just because it’s, it’s happened a couple of times now, more than a handful. 

Matthew Stead: We, we saw, um, we saw that picture of some blades on the ground. [00:04:00] You remember they were in storage. Um, there was a, a strong wind that came across them when they were in storage, and there was some, some flutter and, you know, some, some damage it caused, uh, even when they were on the ground.

Um, yeah, I think just thinking out loud, you know how on some, you know, wind stacks and, or, you know, turbine stacks and, um, you know, poles, you know, exhaust stacks. Sorry, that’s the word I’m looking for. Exhaust stacks. They have the, the spiral around it. You know, it’s for around vortex shedding. So maybe it’s an opportunity for, for Rosie to jump in here and, uh, and comment.

But, um, maybe we can put like vortex, uh, spiral vortex, um, you know, dissipators on the, on the blades before they’re fully commissioned. 

Rosemary Barnes: So it’s cer- certainly not a, a matter of the design just being a little bit wrong, right? That would mean that it would last for a, for a while and then And then break. But it, it also, it could be several things.

It could [00:05:00] have been a manufacturing defect, a bad one. It could have been transport damage. Tho- those are two other things. It could have been, yeah, you know, like a, a new design feature or material that performed massively differently under real loads than what it did, um, you know, in their computer models and in their coupon tests and in their, um, static tests, fatigue tests that they did.

It could be any of those things. Sometimes you do see problems where technically you’re not supposed to leave the rotor locked out for any period of time because it is not designed for the off, off-axis weird loads that you can get when the blade is oriented in a suboptimal way compared to the wind.

And there have been instances where it’s like technically, you know, that was in the instruction manual, however, nobody ever followed it, and it’s only under extreme circumstances where that actually is severe enough to break it. There, there can be instances like that [00:06:00] where I would say that it- it’s pretty difficult/impossible to actually design s- for safety during any conceivable series of events during installation.

The way that you would do it would be to make sure that the blade can handle any wind load and, you know, up to the maximum gust at any, at any time in any position. But having, you know, done a little bit of work, um, on blade design in my past, it is massive. That is just a massive, massive load that is y- it will never see in its lifetime.

You would have such heavy, expensive blades if you actually designed it like that. Um, and so yeah, the That, that would be probably the most charitable reason for a failure where nobody really did their job wrong. It’s just kind of like some bad luck that happens every now and then. 

Allen Hall: Well, it does seem like there’s a trend there between Dogger Bank, Vineyard Wind, [00:07:00] some of the things we’ve seen in China.

During the construction phase, those turbines are very vulnerable and the, the blades can break. Aren’t there extra precautions that could be put in place? Like, you, you could obviously do weather forecasting, and I know that that’s done, but it does seem like it’s, uh, such a consequential problem to have a blade break on a turbine in the North Sea, near Germany.

Like, that, that’s just bad PR. Even if you have all the engineering precautions in the world there, you would still maybe play it a little bit safer so this wouldn’t happen? 

Rosemary Barnes: It’s really hard. Like I said, if you want to design it so that a blade won’t break under these, like, really unusual set of operating conditions that happen during construction, not during– Like, during operation it has to be able to handle whatever is thrown at it, like, no doubt.

Um, everybody agrees on that, including, you know, certification bodies. But during installation, yeah, if you want your blade to be able to handle anything that [00:08:00] that area can throw at it, even, you know, one in 50, one in 100 year storm that comes up unexpectedly, I personally think I haven’t done the optimization.

I wouldn’t be surprised if people had. In fact, I would be surprised if they hadn’t. But I bet that it will cost more to design every blade to withstand that than it would to lose the occasional one, you know, one out of What is it? Like one out of 500 blades or something this happens to, one out of 1,000?

I, I, I don’t know, maybe even less, less than that. Um, you know, so it’s, I don’t know how much these blades cost new, but, you know, say a few hundred thousand. Uh, it’s just, it’s gonna be it, it’ll be more cost-effective to lose the odd one every now and then. And like you say, it’s bad PR, but, um, I don’t know.

Is it that, like- It- … things, things happen, things break sometimes. Um, yeah, I don’t know. Is the PR that bad? I’m not sure. 

Matthew Stead: So [00:09:00] I, I’ve got a question and, um, you know, on LinkedIn, you know, you see whenever there’s a, um, whenever there’s a failure on L- um, e- everyone posts about it. 

Rosemary Barnes: Condition monitoring would’ve stopped this.

If there had only been condition monitoring that, that turbine, then they wouldn’t have had a blade break during construction. That’s why I’m so hesitant to, to, you know, make any calls now ’cause I don’t wanna sound like one of those 

Allen Hall: LinkedIn losers. LinkedIn loser. 

Rosemary Barnes: I learned that the last, um, root cause analysis, like, you know, catastrophic blade failure, um, the last one that I, uh, yeah, got approached to work on, I was told y- you know, like half a dozen different companies have approached us after they saw this in the news.

So people are ambulance chasing. I’m like, “Oh my goodness, should I, should I be ambulance chasing? Is this a new, a new thing that I should be doing?” 

Allen Hall: Let’s take a quick break and when we come back, a fresh forecast says the United States is building more wind than anyone expected As wind energy professionals, staying [00:10:00] informed is crucial, and let’s face it, difficult.

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Visit peswind.com today. Well, here’s a number that runs against the mood of the industry. Wood Mackenzie now expects the United States wind industry to add more than 53 gigawatts of capacity by 2030. That is a 5% increase over the previous quarter’s five-year forecast, and the reason is really straightforward.

Shovels are in the ground. Developers pushed to start construction ahead of the July safe harbor deadline, and firm turbine orders reached 1.1 gigawatts, five times the level of a year earlier. So demand is holding up too, [00:11:00] led by a 1.9 gigawatt deal between Google and Xcel Energy. So the One Big Beautiful Bill, or OB3 as I’ve heard it called more recently, is driving wind energy installations up for the time being.

This is somewhat of a positive measure. Does it demonstrate in, in sort of uncertain terms that wind is still a choice for a lot of energy developers? 

Yolanda Padron: I mean, we’ve still seen a lot of wind developers continue on, right? And just maybe put something further back down the timeline than they initially would for, for a new project.

Uh, but I, I don’t know. I kind of equate this to, like, you know when there’s, like, a massive sale or something on a, at a store where it’s like, “Everything must go”? And I feel like everybody was just kind of leaning towards that in the short term, and then there’s probably gonna be a lull, [00:12:00] and then just go back to, things will probably just go back to normal, I think.

Matthew Stead: My, my take is that if I had a spare few billion dollars, um, and I was in the energy market I would be building wind solar and battery. And so I would see it continuing 

Allen Hall: The existing Department of War review, this is that are not being completed, so it’s holding up a number of projects. That’s gonna eventually hit the courts.

I know it’s in the courts right now. I’m– At least that seems to be some of the news about it, and my guess is based on previous history in the courts is that they’re gonna force the Department of War to either finish the analyses and make some sort of proclamation or to allow them all to pass through.

Uh, just put a stay on the, in the Department of War. I’m not sure how that works because I’ve never heard of that happening in the past, but w- you know, we’re in new times [00:13:00] obviously. But if they, if the courts were able to tell the Department of War to stand down and let the developers go, that would be very interesting.

I think you may see some more activity in wind and that was, you know, off the table just a couple of weeks ago. Is, is that the feeling? I, I know that there’s also some larger discussions. I was listening to this discussion from an MIT analysis about how wind is gonna suffer because solar is so cool and battery is the hot thing.

But in reality, good luck, right? I think you have to have all of the above scenario to get your projects done. If you can’t rely on gas turbines, you better be looking for every possible electricity-generating piece of equipment you can get your hands on right now. 

Yolanda Padron: Do you guys think it’s gonna be one of those things where the US kind of turns away from its traditional cowboy-like way of approaching wind [00:14:00] turbines?

Or at least like blades, you know? Because there’s gonna– there seems to be a lot more I, I don’t know if a lot more restrictions, but a lot more implementation of those restrictions on the operation of wind turbines, um, just like from bird monitoring and just a lot of issues that you might see on a wind site that maybe people didn’t care too much to look at before.

Allen Hall: Well, the argument that MIT was making was operating wind turbines is harder than running a solar farm, which generically is true early on. I think that’s probably true. But from what I see from solar farms and hear from operators, solar farms are not easy either. They have their own problems like fire, hail, uh, yeah, bad inverters, electrical problems, animals eating the wires.

Like, everything comes with this set of issues that it has to work through. But wind’s been going a little bit longer. I feel [00:15:00] like there’s an infrastructure there that solar is just now developing, and the history from large solar developments like in, in Spain has not been great over time. And Australia’s sort of a little bit of a different case, Rosemary, where most of the solar in Australia is put on top of people’s roofs.

But is there a real advantage to solar and battery over wind? 

Rosemary Barnes: I think yes. I think it’s, it, like, it’s not The scale is, yeah, there, it, there is maintenance and management to be done on a solar farm, but it’s not like on a wind farm, uh, in my opinion. 

Allen Hall: Why? Why do you say that? 

Rosemary Barnes: So when I talk with asset managers for solar farms, their number one challenge, at least in Australia, is, is grass, managing the grass.

And in fact, there were some solar farms in Victoria that got shut down briefly by the safety regulator because the grass levels were not s- not safe in terms of, you know, being a fire hazard. You know, like basically it’s mowing the grass, and it’s once a year driving some drones around that are doing [00:16:00]thermal imaging and seeing if there’s any faults there, and then replacing them.

So there’s stuff to do, but it’s not like as much stuff as there is in a wind farm. I’ve always thought that it’s wrong to have wind and solar competing against each other, and it’ll be, you know, like one renewable generation to rule them all. I think it’s definitely true that solar is cheaper and simpler than wind energy.

It had a big disadvantage up until recently because it turns out that the sun sets every single night. I’m not sure if you guys were all aware of that, but, um, yeah, people, people have gotten in touch with me on LinkedIn comments to let me know that that’s true, that the sun sets every night, and sometimes it’s not windy.

Are these two… You know, mind absolutely blown from the, um, YouTube commenters. 

Matthew Stead: LinkedIn losers. Yeah. 

Rosemary Barnes: Not so much LinkedIn losers, like YouTube, YouTube, um, I don’t know, Y- YouTube enthusiasts. But then batteries came along and started getting cheap enough that you can quite easily cover, you know, at least the evening peak with, um, by adding [00:17:00] batteries to a solar farm.

So I think that that together has reduced how much wind energy we need by a bit. But what it hasn’t touched is, um, the times when there isn’t solar available. So wind can step in for that, wind can step in for cloudy weeks and, you know, that’s somewhere like Australia, which is, you know, the most favorable place for solar plus batteries.

But then when you head to somewhere more northern, somewhere with a more severe winter, less sun, uh, and more, you know, demand for heating, et cetera, then y- you know, you just can’t do without wind. It’s, it’s, it’s doing a different thing than what solar is. So I do think that it’s wrong to think solar or wind.

We have to be better than solar. Um, we need to be better for sure. We being wind energy. Wind energy does need to be better, but not because it’s in a competition with solar, but because it’s in a competition with, you know, fossil fuels and y- just being able to [00:18:00] do the transition, energy transition at all.

Allen Hall: We’ll be right back after a short break, and when we return, a turbine maker having a very good year, and it may not be one that you would guess

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Well, not [00:19:00] every wind turbine maker is having a hard year. Suzlon Energy has posted its highest ever first quarter deliveries, 506 megawatts of wind turbine generators. Revenue for the first quarter of the fiscal year came in at 3– 38.19 billion rupees, or roughly $398 million. That is up 22 and a half percent from a year ago.

506 megawatts delivered in a single first quarter says the machines are not just being ordered, they are going up. So there’s a, a big demand in India. India is trying to get into a lot of solar and wind and some battery storage to improve the electricity grid there. S-Suzlon is gonna be a, a winner in that race.

At least there’s just a handful of companies that can really participate because of the way that India has structured the market there. But the Suzlon stock dropped, uh, a couple of percentage points on this news as the net profit was a little tighter than analysts would have [00:20:00] preferred, so there was a lot of profit-taking earlier in the day.

But the long-term forecasts have to be very positive for Suzlon, right? It, it’s just been a long-term player in India and elsewhere even, United States being one of those places, um, Australia being another Is it a positive sign that they’re just seeing more orders, more deliveries, that eventually the profit margin will jump up and that Suzlon will be extremely profitable, kinda like Vestas is now?

Matthew Stead: Yeah, I mean, they’re a, you know, great, great company. They’ve got great product. Um, they’ve got a great market in India. You know, India is growing. Um, I think they’ll continue to improve. I, I would’ve thought it’d be a great stock. 

Allen Hall: It’s, it does seem to be a little bit of a rough ride just because there’s now a lot of competitors within India, Adani being one of them.

There’s o- other wind turbine manufacturers in India. Uh, not a lot of European participation. And was it GE Vernova is essentially out. [00:21:00] Is that right, Rosemary? GE Vernova is out of India altogether at the moment. 

Matthew Stead: And Siemens Gamesa as well? 

Allen Hall: Oh, that would be Omtera. I’m not sure if Omtera is in India at the minute.

Yeah. 

Matthew Stead: Thanks for the reminder. 

Allen Hall: Do you think it’s gonna be a little bit of a rough ride? I think that’s my take on it. And even though the demand will be there and the, the government is making a huge push for it, it, it… Nothing is easy in wind is when you’re trying to scale up because it’s such a huge industry.

Everything’s big. Everything’s expensive. You’re trying to expand your capacity. It doesn’t go smooth, and you’re gonna spend more than you would’ve spent because you gotta get new people in, and you need more equipment, you need more tooling. Everything gets more expensive as you’re doing it. I would expect the profits to drop down a little bit as you’re growing.

That’s normal. 

Matthew Stead: I disagree. I, I think, you know, that they know what they’re doing. They’ve been doing it for a long time. You know, the market is growing, uh, but, you know, they’ve done it before. So I, you know, apart from their little wobble a while ago, um, I, I think it’s, it’s optimistic for [00:22:00] Suzlon. 

Allen Hall: The growth of Suzlon and all the Indian wind turbine manufacturers internally allow them to, uh, do much more work outside of India.

Do you think that will help their order book, just because they’re successful in India and have that baseline of a marketplace that they can reach out to other parts of the world? 

Matthew Stead: Yeah, I think that one’s– That’s gonna be harder , ’cause there’s a whole lot more competition. 

Allen Hall: Right. That’s the real question.

How are they gonna compete against the Chinese in, in places where they don’t have a foothold yet? 

Matthew Stead: Yeah, I mean, that one’s tricky. And, you know, I think, you know, while Suzlon has done well in Australia, they haven’t necessarily maintained their, their lead in Australia. So yeah, outside of India, it’s probably a different story.

Allen Hall: Isn’t Europe the next marketplace just because it won’t be banned like China has essentially been with- within Europe, the greater Europe? That Suzlon would be that one place, that one company that would be allowed in to, to make some onshore turbines? 

Matthew Stead: I think we spoke about that probably about two months ago, and that was definitely in the news that, you know, Suzlon were looking at expanding into, into [00:23:00] Europe and, uh, exactly making the most of that.

Um, yeah. So that, maybe that’s their, their golden, um, export market. 

Allen Hall: Well, a project in Queensland just got cut in half, and for two reasons at once. Alinta Energy has dropped the southern portion of its Mount Challenger wind farm in the Whitsunday Hinterlands. Six months of LiDAR monitoring showed that the wind resource at Kelsey Creek was not as strong enough to really to support the turbines, and the company also heard from residents opposed to turbines in that area, and a local action group gathered more than 6,000 signatures.

And for developers, it’s, it’s really a case study in wind data and the community arriving at the same result. But we’ve seen a lot of action up in Queensland more recently. Uh, I’m not sure what’s driving all the opposition to wind turbines, but I’ve seen news stories about it in the United States. [00:24:00] It’s great to have Matthew here because he’s an acoustician.

Uh, some of the discussion in the community, uh, event that I saw was just discussing 40 decibels of wind turbine noise, and which didn’t sound like a lot. And when I looked it up online, 40 decibels was like a library, which I think is being fairly quiet. 

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Imagine if something got built near your property that was so noisy it was as bad as being inside a library or having a refrigerator in your home.

Easy to see how your life could be ruined. 

Allen Hall: Matthew, what’s the, what’s the amount of noise from a, a road going by? Like a truck going by on a road, what is, roughly what is that? 

Matthew Stead: I mean, that can quite easily get well above 60, 70, um, sometimes 80. I mean, the analogy, um, that I like to use is that each turbine has the sound emission which is similar to a truck.

[00:25:00] You know, a reasonable sized truck. Okay? So each– imagine each turbine is a truck. Um, but those trucks are a kilometer away. So, you know, the noise level decays in a logarithmic way. Um, and so by the time you’re a kilometer away, the noise from that truck is quite low. An individual turbine is gonna be way, way, way, way, way less than 40 But, you know, there’s more than one turbine, so you need to add them up and it’s n- it’s not a, it’s not a, you know, 20 plus 20 equals 40.

It’s a logarithmic addition. There are many, many, many people that live on busy roads with not 100 trucks, but thousands of trucks. So, you know, the noise exposure from a road can be way, way, way more than from a, you know, a wind farm. 

Rosemary Barnes: That’s one of the things that strikes me when I have a, a look at, um, yeah, like Twitter comments for this particular post and everyone’s like, “Oh my God, that’s so terrible, 40 decibels.”

Like, yeah, I can see [00:26:00] why you’re ruining– that’s ruining your life. And yeah, I, um, I, you know, said that sarcastically at the start, but there’s, there’s plenty of, you know, hundreds of people that are, um, you know, thinking along the same lines, but the majority of them are like, “It should be legislated. You know, there should be rules around this.

They can just do whatever they want.” But, uh, the, it is legislated, right? Like, we all accept that wind turbines make noise. It is legislated. You can measure it, right? And so if you h- uh, have a property and you think it’s too noisy for the wind turbines two or three kilometers away, there’s something you can do, right, Matt?

Can you maybe tell us what is the process that, that happens when somebody thinks that a wind farm is too noisy? 

Matthew Stead: So a few things. So, um, normally at a house, um, where you’re, say you’re a kilometer away, normally the ambient environment can be louder than the wind farm. The first challenge is to actually measure the noise from the wind farm and not from the ambient environment.

So what that means is that normally, um, measurements are taken around a wind [00:27:00] farm before the wind farm’s even built, and so that way we actually know, well, how much is the ambient noise. Um, and you know, the ambient noise is probably above 40 for a good proportion of the time. So th- that’s the first thing.

You need to understand what the noise environment is like before the wind farm. And then, um, using highly sensitive, highly calibrated, um, sound level meters, which can be, you know, 0.1 decibel accuracy, um, you can then monitor the sound before and after And then compare the two. But what happens is, um, as I said, it’s normally very difficult to separate out the sound from the wind turbine from the general environment.

So then what, um, there are different methods then to, um, either measure in like, um, halfway. So if you measure halfway between the wind turbine and the house, then you can start to separate out the wind turbine noise from the general environment and then do a, you know, propagation or a [00:28:00] prediction or extrapolation of what it’d be at the house.

Um, the other way of doing it is actually measuring at the turbines. So you can measure the individual turbine sound and compare that to what was expected, um, and then sort of validate, um, the initial, you know, source levels. You know, is it really a truck or is it, um, quieter or, or louder than a truck? 

Rosemary Barnes: And if they do, it, it– I mean, I’m sure on occasion that people do get it wrong in terms of the noise.

They are able to do stuff about that. That’s partly what the, um, serrations on a blade are, are there to make a, um, a blade quieter. And you can also just do something as simple as turning down the turbine when, um, wind conditions are such that you know that it’s gonna be particularly noisy. No one wants to do that because you get less power output, but certainly you can do something about it if it turns out to violate the conditions of the, um, y- you know, the noise that they promised it when the turbine was, when the wind farm was developed.

Matthew Stead: Yeah. And, um, you know, in the past, it’s [00:29:00]improved a lot, but in the past there were some unusual sounds that came from some turbines, which came from like the gearboxes and, you know, you know, the drivetrain and so forth. Um, but, you know, those things are– they’re, they’re mechanical machines as we spoke about, you know, and they can be addressed, and they can be dealt with through, through design and good engineering, and also, also fixed, you know, retrospectively as well.

And like you say, Rosie, um, if there’s too– if there’s more aerodynamic noise than expected, um, there are serrations and, and lower noise add-ons that can be added. Um, but also many of the turbines also have noise modes, uh, so it can be slightly derated y- with, with certain sectors of wind, um, wind direction and wind speeds to, you know, reduce the noise further.

It is an absolute science. It’s really well understood. It’s, it’s measurable. I mean, there is some uncertainty in the measurements, but it’s, it’s, yeah, there is a lot of knowledge about this topic. 

Allen Hall: Well, I just had a math question. If they want to reduce the decibels by like three [00:30:00] dB, what kind of power reduction are we talking about?

Is it like a 5% decrease or 50% decrease in power output to achieve that three dB reduction in noise 

Matthew Stead: Yeah. Uh, I don’t have the maths in front of me, but it would depend on the power curve and the actual make model, but I, I… It’s not, it’s not half the power. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, um, less tweaks to the power output than, than that much.

Allen Hall: So i- it’s not a massive number. It’s, it’s a reduction of course, but it’s not, you’re not losing a, a ton of revenue. 

Matthew Stead: No, no. I mean, obviously it depends, but yeah, it’s not necessarily a ton of revenue loss. 

Rosemary Barnes: But I think it’s a real shame, ’cause like when I look at, you know, social media posts where, um, people are up- upset about noise, like they are clearly not aware that there is a very mundane process to go through.

Like, you know, it is not… You don’t, you don’t have to get so worked up. If you’ve got noise at your house and, um, you know, it’s upsetting you, [00:31:00]there is a very established process that you can go through and it can be, it can be fixed. And I know from, you know, the asset managers that I, I work with, um, that are some of my friends, like I, I know that they want to help you.

They do not want people living around the wind farm to hate the wind farm. So y- you need to get in touch and let them know, and, and I… They’re gonna be able to fix your problem. If it’s, if it’s detectable y- you know, with the methods that Matt said, then they are gonna be able to, um, fix it. I know that sometimes people say that they can hear noise, and you just cannot find any evidence of it, and therefore you cannot, there is nothing you can do to that wind farm operation to be able to solve that problem.

So I’m not saying in every case if you think you’ve got a problem they’re gonna be able to solve it, but if they can pick it up with a, what is it called? A noise meter? A decibel meter? Yeah, whatever that doodad’s called. If they can pick it up on that, then they can, they can fix the problem for you. And yeah, it’s just, uh, it, it upsets me that, you know, people are really, are really getting worked up [00:32:00] about this issue, but there’s a, a process to go through.

Matt’s holding it now for everyone just listening in. It’s like the size of, I don’t know, a liter of milk. It’s just not it’s not, not a complicated thing. 

Matthew Stead: I think one of the big challenges that we’ve had is that there’s been a lot of negativity around noise, and then people get sensitized. And so, um, the, you know, what I’ve, um, what I, what I’ve heard many times is, um, the sensitivity to noise can be communicated Um, so, you know, like Rosie, if I tell you you’re gonna be really annoyed by this thing, this thing is coming, you’re not gonna like it, you’re gonna hate it, and then you’re sensitized to it, and then you’ll tend to have more of a, you know, a, a response 

Rosemary Barnes: If we’d gone on a nationwide campaign to, you know, visit every house that’s within 600 meters of a y- you know, of a road and, um, you know, given impassioned speeches to them about [00:33:00] how it would ruin their life, then yeah, it is easy to see how we would be so fixated on it that our lives would really be ruined.

Allen Hall: Meanwhile, the Australian band AC/DC came to Charlotte the other day to a sold-out concert at the huge football stadium, and I guarantee you that concert was way above the noise level of a wind farm. 

Rosemary Barnes: I hope so. Imagine if imagine if a, a bunch of whingers in the audience are like, “Excuse me, I’ve got my little noise measuring doodad and it’s over 40 decibels.”

Allen Hall: Well, that wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy podcast, and thank God for that. If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us on LinkedIn, and if you found some value in today’s conversation, please leave us a review. It really helps other wind energy professionals discover the show.

And don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And so for Rosie, Yolanda, and Matthew, I’m Allen Hall, and we’ll see you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy [00:34:00] podcast.

Allen covers Dominion’s $800M tariff hit, Eversource’s 84% profit drop, Nordex’s record quarter, and a looming floating wind vessel shortage.

Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!

Good Monday, everyone.

Let us start this week with a number. Eight hundred million dollars. That is what tariffs on steel and aluminum added to Dominion Energy’s Coastal Virginia Offshore Wind project. Dominion President Bob Blue shared the damage on a second-quarter earnings call. Two hundred and thirty million dollars … just in the latest quarter alone. That is on top of the five hundred and eighty million from the quarter before.

The project is eighty-one percent complete. Thirty-one turbines are already spinning … producing more than four hundred and fifty megawatts. But the finish line just moved. Completion is now expected by the end of twenty twenty-seven. Weather delays. Vessel maintenance. And some particularly complicated turbines to install. Blue says the project will still save customers money. And Dominion expects to pocket more than five hundred million dollars in savings from grid upgrade cost shifts. The total price tag … eleven-point-six billion dollars.

Now … if Dominion is feeling the squeeze in Virginia … Eversource up in New England is feeling something worse. The utility’s second-quarter profit dropped eighty-four percent. Net income fell to just fifty-three-point-seven million dollars. Why? A one-hundred-and-sixty-four-million-dollar charge tied to the offshore wind projects they already sold. South Fork Wind. Revolution Wind. Eversource got out of offshore wind back in twenty twenty-four … but the bills keep coming. Higher-than-expected payments to Global Infrastructure Partners are dragging down the bottom line.

So one company builds through the pain. Another walks away … and still pays for it.

But here is some good news. Over in Hamburg, Germany … Nordex just posted a quarter that would make any CEO smile. Sales up sixteen percent. EBITDA … more than doubled … to two hundred and twenty-four million euros. Margins hit ten-point-three percent. Net income … one hundred and eleven million euros. Up from thirty-one million a year ago. And orders? Up thirty-two percent. Three-point-one gigawatts of new turbine orders in just one quarter. Their total order book now stands at eighteen-point-four billion euros. Nordex CEO José Luis Blanco confirmed the full-year guidance. The onshore wind giant is not just surviving. It is thriving.

Now … let us go to sea. Classification society ABS says floating offshore wind is about to create a brand-new problem. Not enough ships. A new report says demand for large anchor-handling vessels and multipurpose support vessels will surge as floating wind projects go from small demonstrations to full commercial scale.

Here is the number that tells the story. A single one-gigawatt floating wind farm needs about one hundred and ninety-eight anchors … and nearly two hundred kilometers of mooring lines. That is far more than a single deepwater oil and gas platform. ABS says shortages in certain vessel classes could hit as early as twenty twenty-nine. Global floating wind capacity is expected to grow from about two hundred and seventy megawatts today … to fourteen gigawatts by twenty forty. The race for ships … has begun.

And speaking of ships … Japan just finished building one. Mitsui O.S.K. Lines held a naming ceremony in Nagasaki for the Wind Whale. Japan’s first coastal deck carrier built specifically for offshore wind. One hundred and forty-nine meters long. A flush deck designed so that monopiles, towers, blades and nacelles can roll right on from the stern. It even has dynamic positioning … so it can transfer cargo directly to installation vessels at sea. Built in China by Taizhou Sanfu Ship Engineering … the Wind Whale will carry foundations from a factory in Okayama to construction sites around Japan. A country that once built ships for oil … now builds them for wind.

And finally … back home in Iowa. The state Supreme Court ruled that the CEO of Global Fiberglass Solutions can be held personally liable for dumping thirteen hundred used wind turbine blades across the state. CEO Donald Lilly and another executive argued they were never in Iowa. The court disagreed. Lilly signed the contracts. Iowa Attorney General Brenna Bird put it plainly. They were hired to recycle used wind turbine blades. Instead … they dumped them. Four hundred blades piled up along Interstate 35 near Ellsworth alone.

The lesson? You can build an industry on clean energy. But you still have to clean up after yourself.

So what does all of this mean … if you work in wind?

It means the money is real now. Projects are not getting canceled. They are getting more expensive. And that changes the math for every engineer, every project manager, every supply chain director reading a bid today. Tariffs come and go. But an eleven-billion-dollar project does not stop on a dime.

It means the vessels you need may not be there when you need them. If you are planning a floating wind project for the early twenty thirties … your vessel strategy should already be on paper.

It means manufacturers who kept their discipline … who held their margins and grew their order books … are the ones writing the next chapter.

And it means accountability is coming to every corner of this business. You cannot just build turbines. You have to manage the turbines. This industry asked the world to trust it with the future of energy. That trust comes with responsibility.

And that is the state of the wind industry for August 3rd, 2026.

Rosemary Barnes, CEO and founder of Pardalote Consulting, joins to discuss their new grant-funded study of blade erosion and heat fatigue in Australia.

Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!

Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining light on wind energy’s brightest innovators. This is the progress powering tomorrow

Allen Hall 2025: Well, Rosemary, welcome back to the show. 

Rosemary Barnes: Thanks, Allen. Great to be here. For, it’s been a while since we did one of these one-on-one episodes, like a, yeah, a proper, proper guest. 

Allen Hall 2025: Well, this is kind of a celebratory episode because your company, Pardalote Consulting, has been awarded, uh, some funding from the Australian Capital Territory’s government for the Energy Innovation Fund.

Rosemary Barnes: It’s a really good program that the ACT government has to try and get energy innovation In the state. It’s not a state actually, it’s technically a territory. Little more than just Canberra, the city. Uh, but there are actually quite a few, like, really interesting energy-related companies here, partly ’cause of the, the fund I think helps, but also just tracing back like, [00:01:00] uh, y- you know, in the 20-teens, Australia had a really conservative government that hated renewable energy, and the ACT government had a commitment at that time to 100%, um, 100% renewable electricity for the, the government.

And that was one of the only programs that was resulting in a lot of, um, you know, clean energy projects being built, and one of the conditions that they put on that, uh, for people that would win PPAs with the ACT was that you had to have your headquarters in Canberra. So we’ve actually got quite a few, quite a few really cool, innovative companies out of here.

Um, like Neoen’s headquarters here. Windlab, uh, yeah, was, was founded here and still has a lot of people here. Pardalote obviously, and you know, a few other companies as well. So despite it being a small city of like, I don’t know, maybe it’s up to 400,000 or something people by now, um, yeah, there is actually quite a lot going on here for energy.

Allen Hall 2025: And the Energy Innovation Fund is funded by the wind and solar operators in the area, and your particular [00:02:00] effort has really global consequences. You’re focusing on two areas involving how wind turbines survive Australia, but more, uh, of relevance is to just really tough conditions which exist not just in Australia but around the world.

What two areas are you going to focus on? 

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. So the two focus areas are leading edge erosion and high temperature fatigue, which we can probably get into the definitions of those in a minute. But basically my, um– what led me to wanna have a project like this was that when I moved back to Australia in 2021, I– and I started working in O&M, uh, I noticed that the wind turbines that I would look at, the blades that I would look at here behaved really differently to the ones that I worked with overseas.

You know, es- especially with leading edge erosion, like often I would be doing a condition assessment of a, you know, a new wind farm. Um, might only have been operating for, you know, two years. That’s a pretty common time for people to get in and do a condition assessment [00:03:00] because their warranty period is about to end and they wanna, you know, make sure that everything is okay.

Um, and I would just notice that often, like 90, 100% of blades would already have bad erosion after just a couple of years, which is super-duper fast. And then there are some tools available to check, um, like what kind of erosion are you likely to experience on your site. Like is it a higher severity erosion site or a, a low severity one?

Um, and you basically, you know, the status quo globally is to just look at the annual rainfall, um, and the tip speed. And if you’ve got, you know, high for both of those, that’s a bad erosion site. And if you’ve got low for both of those, it’s a, a low erosion site. But when I plotted out the wind farms that I knew had really bad erosion problems onto, you know, a chart with those two axes, I just saw a random distribution of dots.

You know? Like, this was not– uh, this had no predictive value for Australian wind farms. And so that led me to believe that, okay, um, you know, things are a bit [00:04:00] different here. Makes sense, you know, most of the knowledge that we have about how wind turbines operate, it’s been developed and validated mostly in Northern Europe.

You know? Like it’s, it’s Denmark and the surrounding countries that had, like, the bulk of the early wind energy. First few decades of knowledge were, you know, were mostly there. Of course, there were some other, um, places that had wind turbines, but, you know, most of the The OEMs have been operating for decades, came from Denmark.

And I know when I lived in Denmark, the rain there is very different to the rain in Australia. So in Denmark, it’s basically always raining, right? Like, it’s just… Like, even if it’s not raining, you’re still gonna get wet when you go outside ’cause it’s just, like, the air has this just amazing ability to just hold onto moisture.

Um, but it’s very, very gentle. But, you know, over an entire year of most days having gentle rain, that adds up to a lot. Whereas in Australia, and especially if you go, like, north to Queensland, it rarely rains. It’s mostly just dry, and when it [00:05:00] does rain, it’s like a tap turns on, and I, I swear you will get bruised from the rain droplets hitting your skin.

You know, they just have so much energy in them. So I think that that i- you know, when you look at just the overall rainfall, you really hide something important about how erosion, um, can progress. Then, um, there’s other places in Australia that have very different characteristics. Again, they don’t have that kind of really intense rain but, you know, some of those sites are also having really bad erosion.

And so it just occurred to me, I did a lot of research, you know, into what’s going on and, you know, the academics are studying erosion a whole lot, and they’ve got, you know, a lot of standardized tests and, you know, products are developed according to these standardized tests. But the standardized tests don’t actually resemble reality, and especially they don’t resemble reality in Australia.

And so my client started asking me, “Okay, you know, the products that we have are, are terrible. We have to replace them every couple of years. It’s, um, causing big problems with also [00:06:00] the amount of energy that you’re losing.” One of the types of, um, leading-edge erosion or leading-edge problems that we have in Australia is that the, the coatings tend to peel off and make these, like, big flakes which will just massively disrupt the airflow, can cause y- you know, at least a few percent AEP loss, and maybe up to five.

And even worse than the AEP loss is the revenue loss because it affects it most at, you know, lower wind speeds. Um, you get a bigger hit than at rated wind speeds. So there’s a variety of problems going on with leading edges in Australia, which mean that I, I basically… My clients would ask, “What product should we put on to prevent having to, you know, constantly replace this?”

‘Cause it costs, like- you know, 30, $40,000 per turbine to replace the protection, not to mention, you know, one or two days of downtime. It’s expensive, and I basically, I didn’t have a good answer for them. What, what product should they put on? I don’t know. No, we, we don’t know. One, we don’t know what the [00:07:00] specific, um, characteristics are that are…

what the specific local environment, local conditions are that are accelerating leading-edge erosion, one. And two, all of the products tend to be tested around this, you know, there’s this protocol that academics have come up with, and they’ve kind of like assumed that this is representative of how things behave in the field, and it’s– I don’t think it’s particularly true anyway, but it’s especially not true in Australia.

There are a few companies that are testing to different standards. Um, definitely applaud them. But without knowing wha- what are the conditions truly like in Australia, uh, it’s really hard to advise, like, what kind of tests should you be demanding from a product you’re considering to be sure that you’re gonna put it on and not gonna be replacing it again in two years.

Allen Hall 2025: Because that’s really the trouble in Australia is when you get offered products They have been tested generally in somewhere in Europe and maybe in the United States, and then when they go to [00:08:00] Australia, it’s really unknown as to how those products will do, which is a huge risk for the Australian wind market as to what to choose, how to choose, is it– what’s real in terms of test data.

So now you’re gonna go out and do what? Are you gonna put sensors out by the wind farms? Are you gonna try to do more of a statistical summary of the actual environment around wind farms using existing data? What’s the approach here? 

Rosemary Barnes: It’s all of the above, but the part that is supported by the grant is that we’re gonna have enough money to be able to buy some scientific-grade sensors and put them on, um, a sample of Australian wind farms.

So we’re gonna be looking at a lot more characteristics about the rain than simply is it raining now, you know, how many millimeters per hour. We’re also gonna be investigating, you know, every kind of characteristic of, of that, um, of that rain, um, including, yeah, like the, the energy that’s in it, for example.

A, a bunch of stuff. I won’t get into every single [00:09:00] parameter. Um, and you know, other things as well, like measuring UV, solar radiation, um, particles, because, you know, in Australia we have a lot of dirt roads, which I know is very common in wind farms around the world, but Australian dirt roa- roads are always dry and dusty, like 99% of the time, so that’s one of the things that y- you know, maybe that’s causing a difference.

Um, so basically putting sensors all over a bunch of wind turbines and then monitoring the erosion, um, a combination of some real-time monitoring and also looking at inspection, um, drone inspection images annually. We also have a- an option where we’ll just be using SCADA data and inspection images, so that’s like a lower cost version where we can combine that with the findings from the scientific-grade instrumented turbines to build up a picture of what types of conditions lead to accelerated erosion.[00:10:00]

Allen Hall 2025: So the SCADA data will, will have some information inside of it, you think, that, uh, will correlate to the weather outside? 

Rosemary Barnes: It has some Additionally, we can look up, um, you know, just the weather data, like how many millimeters fell during which 15-minute interval throughout the day, what was the temperature.

SCADA will tell us also what the temperature was, um, what the speed of the turbine was, so you can calculate the tip speed, ’cause that’s an important thing. Um, yeah, so it’s, it’s two, it’s two tiers of data collection. The scientific grade sensors, as you can imagine, are, are really expensive and y- you know, the, the grant project has contributed a, a lot of funding, um, but it’s not enough to put those, yeah, put a little mini lab on top of every turbine across Australia, obviously.

So that we’re using s- doing selectively, and then we can increase the number of wind farms that are included in the study by just doing this, um, cheaper version of the SCADA [00:11:00] plus, uh, weather data that’s available. 

Allen Hall 2025: So what are some of the risks on the temperature side for all the high-temperature regions of Australia that have wind turbines?

Clearly it’s generally warmer in Australia than it is in, in Scandinavia and Northern Europe. What kind of temperatures are we talking about on the ground? 

Rosemary Barnes: Uh, well, temperatures here can get pretty close to 50 degrees. Um, and if you’ve ever been inside a wind turbine blade on a, even a mildly hot day, you’ll know that the temperature inside a wind turbine, and especially inside the blade, is much hotter than what it is, uh, what the ambient temperature is.

So this project is one– I’ve actually been talking about this project for, yeah, like over 10 years now. Ever since I started, I moved to Denmark, started working for a wind turbine manufacturer, I had done– I had just finished doing my PhD on composite materials, structural design, and analysis. So, um, yeah, very, very familiar with, [00:12:00] you know, how composite materials work and, in particular, the effect that temperature has on them.

I mean, like most materials, when composites get warmer, they get softer, and that is really important for a w- a wind turbine blade. You know, if it gets, um, less stiff, then you’re gonna get a lot more strain, and that is going to affect your fatigue behavior. Y- you know, fatigue is just the application of a little bit of, a small amount of strain.

It’s not gonna cause damage, but when you apply it millions, tens of millions of times, like you do in a, o- over a wind turbine’s operate, um, operating lifetime, then that builds up. And, you know, wind turbine blades are a very fatigue-driven design. Um, it’s one of the most important things to consider when you’re designing a wind turbine blade.

And so when I got to Denmark and I learned how materials are qualified and how the qualification is treated in the certification process, I just realized it’s not particularly conservative, and also that some of the assumptions that are made that [00:13:00] wo- again, they worked really well in more moderate climates where wind turbines have had most of their developmental history.

You know, it’s not such a big deal there if you test at room temperature. Your wind turbine blade is spending most of its operating lifetime at room temperature or below. It’s, it’s rarely, you know, above 30 degrees in Denmark and most of Northern Europe and, you know, also a lot of, um, a lot of America, not, not all of it But, um, in Australia it has just extended periods above that temperature and even exceeding the temperature where, you know, wind turbines have an operating limit and after that they will shut down.

But the operating limits are based on ambient temperature. It’s not based on what’s the temperature in the laminate, which is what really matters for blade lifetime. So anyway, I’ve been obsessed, like honestly obsessed about this issue for 10 years. Talked about it with anybody who would listen . But then when I started working in O&M in [00:14:00] Australia and I started seeing some wind farms with an abnormal number of cracks early…

again, early in their lifetime, you know, I think one of the wind farms I was looking at was maybe three years old or four at the time. I think it was three actually, and had a lot of cracks, and I looked at a few years in a row and it was more and more cracks every year and I’m like, “Oof, this really looks like end of life fatigue behavior.”

A- actually it’s not, y- you know, there’s this concept of a bathtub curve where, um, when you’re looking at failures in components, in, in anything, not just in, um, wind turbine blades, but you know, like you’d start– it’s called a bathtub because, you know, when it starts operating, you’ll get quite a lot of failures.

Anything big, any manufacturing defects or anything are gonna cause failures quite fast, and that kind of drops off over time as all of those, uh, get addressed. And then you have, you know, the bulk of your operating life, it’s like pretty low level, pretty, pretty constant for a long time and then as you get towards the end of the [00:15:00] life, you start to see failure rates rise up again.

That’s your fatigue failures, your end of life fatigue failures. And so when I saw the same types of cracks more and more each year, I’m like, “This looks like, you know, the foot end of the bathtub, not the head end.” And, uh, it made me worried and I’ve now seen that across a few wind farms in Australia at, um, hotter places.

There’s a few blade types that are more prone to it than others, but at this point it’s still a suspicion that that’s what’s going on. I mean, a suspicion backed by a lot of, a lot of theory and knowledge of how the certification process works. But this project now we’ve got some funding to actually go put some sensors onto wind turbines, actually learn what the temperatures are in the blades throughout the whole laminate, um, not just the, you know, on the outside surface or not just the ambient temperature, but actually, you know, develop a temperature gradient across the whole, um, the whole laminate in the blade shell.

Um, and [00:16:00] then we’re going to be doing a bunch of modeling basically to look at what is the effect of these different temperatures that blades are really seeing and how much would we expect to… that to decrease a lifetime. And then we should also be able to say, you know, if you have this issue in your wind farm, you might be able to change your operation a little bit and extend your lifetime a lot.

Because this one, it’s real– like, in contrast to leading edge erosion, leading edge erosion is just, it’s, you know, every wind turbine has it to a certain extent, and it, it’s always there, but it’s a relatively minor cost to fix it. You know, like it sounds like a lot, like 30, $40,000 per wind turbine, but, um, you know, compared to if you’ve got to replace every blade across your fleet because they’re all, you know, at the end of their life after five years, you know, that’s obviously shocking.

And, you know, that’s a bad example, but even in a y- you know, like a less extreme example, maybe [00:17:00] after 15 years you have to do a, you know, a f- a fleet-wide campaign to strengthen blades or something. It’s, you know, m- many millions of dollars for that, and so it c- could make sense to be able to learn, okay, what, what hours of operation should we be avoiding?

Additionally, because when it’s super-duper hot in Australia, usually you’ve got heaps of solar power and the electricity price is not that high. So I, I think that there– and I don’t, obviously, before we’ve done the project, I don’t know what the threshold is. But in both cases, we will be aiming to improve the knowledge of how you can operate to avoid these periods of accelerated damage.

Allen Hall 2025: Do you think you’re seeing more fatigue-like damage due to the blades operating when it’s hot or not operating when it’s hot, with maybe less airflow around the blade and maybe less cooling going on is just a temperature soak At rest? [00:18:00]

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. It’s interesting because the temperature is higher if it’s not rotating, um, because you get a whole lot of, um, convective heat, heat transfer when the turbine is operating.

So your temperatures are not gonna get as hot when operating as when they’re standing still. However, if it’s standing still, they’re only very lightly loaded. Like, yes, they’re gonna get, um, blown by, by gusts and, um, have a little bit of bending, but it’s, it’s very, very small compared to, uh, if it is y- you know, operational loads.

Uh, assuming that you’re not in the middle of a s- a storm. But yeah, a storm probably doesn’t come with 50 degrees temperatures. 

Allen Hall 2025: And what part of the blade is susceptible to these higher temperatures? Is it the resin? Is it the fiberglass or carbon fiber? Or is it the, the glue, the bond joints? What part are you focused on?

Rosemary Barnes: The resin is the main part that I’m focused on. It gl- it could be an issue for glue too, actually. I haven’t even looked into what the, um, yeah, temperature assumptions are with, with glue, with [00:19:00] bond lines. But the failures that I’m seeing in the field are not, are not bond line issues. It’s, it’s, um, a laminate problem.

Allen Hall 2025: What about balsa and foam inside of the blade? Are they affected by the temperatures or are they pretty temperature stable? 

Rosemary Barnes: I don’t think they’re affected at these kinds of temperatures, no. They, they don’t really do much actually. The, the core materials, like it, it is very important that they’re, that they’re there, but their job is really to keep the fiberglass separated from its- itself to make it stiffer.

So, um, yeah, that’s, that’s unlikely to be a, a major source of problems. 

Allen Hall 2025: So this study is gonna work over about three years, and you have a number of wind farms that are participating. Are you looking for more wind farms to participate in Australia? 

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, we can, um, have as many as, as people want to join.

We’ve got quite a good selection so far. Definitely can always welcome more. A, a bit limited in how many can get the really, um, good sensor [00:20:00]package, because the grant funding is a, you know, a certain amount, and that’s paying the bulk of those sensors. So, um, those spots are limited. So if anybody wants to really zone in on what is specifically causing erosion on their site, you know, if you know that you have got leading edge protection that is not good enough and you have to replace it soon, but you don’t know what to replace it with, then, you know, that would be the kind of wind farm that might want to consider, yeah, joining this and, um, you know, getting these sensors on their, um…

We’re putting them on top of the nacelles, most of them. Um, yeah, so that would be a good match then. Um, and then, yeah, for the ones that are doing the SCADA data and, um, weather data- There’s not such a, a hard limit on how many we can have join like that. So yeah, we can have more, more like that. 

Allen Hall 2025: In the temperature fatigue effort, i- is that still looking for participants or are there particular wind turbine types or manufacturers that you’re [00:21:00] looking for to participate?

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, I think, um, I, I mean yes, we can have more of those. That’s a simpler, a, a simpler issue as well. The sensors are not so expensive and, um, it’s, yeah, it’s a, it’s a simpler project to join that one. We only need, you know, a couple of turbines per site, so it won’t be such a, uh, an involved process to get everything up on into the turbines.

And in terms of who might like to join that, I would say anybody that is in a really hot area where, you know, where they see a lot of days over 30 degrees, and if they see any days, you know, getting into the high 40s, then I would say that that’s worthwhile. Or even I have seen this issue in some milder sites, um, yeah, depending on the, on the blade type as well.

It is more common with polyester resins. They have a, a lower op- uh, maximum operating temperature than epoxy resins. But then also just anybody that has noticed just, hey, [00:22:00] we’ve got a lot of cracks, and it seems like we’re getting more and more cracks every year, which to be honest, can be hard to keep track of if you’re…

If you’ve got a full service agreement, uh, you know, an OEM managing your wind farm The early signs of this are gonna be category one and category two cracks. They’re not in exactly the same location. It’s, you know, it’s a tricky one. Normally, if you’re looking at a serial issue, then you’re going to have, uh, well, you know, your ideal pattern for a serial issue is the exact same thing happening over and over again.

And so it is harder to pull this out. It also really would be very rare for it to be happening in the first two years or three years, whatever your serial defect liability period is. So it’s quite hard. But, um, another group of wind farms that might like to consider it is if you know that in, you know, a certain number of years you have to renegotiate your service agreement or, you know, it ends and you might have to take over yourself, then this’ll be a really good way for you to [00:23:00] understand, you know, have I got a ticking time bomb here?

Um, because it’s not something that you’re gonna be aware of if you haven’t been, you know, doing some really, really in-depth shadow, shadow monitoring of your blades, you know, running your own inspections and looking at every single damage, not just category three, four, five, but lower ones. So yeah, I mean, there’s a, a wide variety of people that, that could be interested in joining.

Allen Hall 2025: Are you expecting a number of manufacturers that make leading-edge protection or involved in resin creation, some– there’s a number of resin companies and a variety of resins that are used globally, sort of interchangeably at times. Are you expecting some of those companies to participate in this effort just to learn about the Australian environment?

Rosemary Barnes: I think it would be a good opportunity to test out some products and see how they behave in the Australian context. I think that that would be a really good selling point, but I, I have to say that most of the companies doing that sort of thing that wanna enter Australia, they don’t [00:24:00] really consider…

Like, from the perspective of wind farm owners in Australia, if you can’t show us wind farms in Australia where this has worked and, you know, show us a before or after, you know, the old LEP lasted Two years and our LEP is going on four years now with no damage. It, you know, unless you’ve got a before and after like that, you can tell us however many turbines that you’ve got installed around the world, but, um, we don’t consider it validated, y- you know?

It’s not validated for Australian conditions yet. And I do have this same discussion over and over again with, you know, not just leading edge protection, but all kinds of, um, you know, manufacturers of whatever doodads that you put on to improve a, a wind turbine. It’s so different to Australia. Things break so fast.

And I’m talking everything, you know, like vortex generators fall off and, um, yeah, like, uh, you know, bits of lightning protection systems fall off, seals just [00:25:00] crumble and disintegrate. Um, and it, you know, we’re very wary of, of new products. So I, I do– I mean, I’m thinking of it more from my client’s point of view than from the product manufacturer’s point of view.

But one thing that I wanna get out of this pro- project is to be able to answer one of the most common questions that I get is, which is, what leading edge protection should I be putting on my turbine? And for now, I don’t know. I, I know a range of products that don’t work in Australia, and not much more than that.

So, um, yeah. And it’s also, you know, Australia’s a very varied place with lots of different kinds of climate too. So it’s not gonna be like, you know, the product that works in Queensland is the same one that’s gonna work in Tasmania, which is the same one that’s gonna work in Western Australia. You know, um, so it, this project is gonna really pull out what are the site specific issues you’ve got at your site and what kinds of, um, you know, tests would we need to see a product um, perform in order to know that this [00:26:00] is gonna last on your site.

Allen Hall 2025: W- what is the outcome of this project or these two projects? Are they gonna be reports or, uh, a, a continual monitoring system that’s designed for the Australian environment? How do you see this going? 

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, so one part of it is, um, developing a way to identify periods of accelerated damage and to know not to operate during that time.

So we call it protective operation. Uh, so that would, uh, help you if, yeah, you’re trying to extend the life of something or increase the amount of time before you have to repair, then y- you know, that would be useful to have that knowledge. And it will be as simple as just an alert saying, “Hey, accelerated damage conditions.

Consider, you know, if you wanna keep on operating.” And, you know, if the price of electricity is super high at that time, they may want to push through, and if it’s low, they probably won’t want to. So that’s one thing. Um, especially, you know, as wind turbines get to their, near the end of their life. I’ve got some clients whose wind farms only have, you know, [00:27:00] maybe five years operation left.

They just simply don’t wanna repair their leading edge protection again. They just, they, they don’t wanna do that. So they would be happy to, you know, reduce operation a bit and have their turbine limp through to the end of the period. Y- you know, you want everything to wear out at once. You don’t want brand-new leading edge protection on a turbine that’s going to come down in a couple of years.

Um, so, you know, that’s, that’s one part of it. And then the other thing is, you know, turbines earlier in their lifetime, how can we optimize the maintenance schedule with leading edge erosion? Um, so, you know, like it’s a lot cheaper to, uh, replace the LEP if you get– catch it early, but then you don’t wanna be catching it too early and replacing it, you know, constantly when you, you don’t need to.

So, um, yeah, it, this, having this knowledge will enable a site-by-site operations and maintenance strategy with respect to leading edge protection. We also have some sites who are having trouble. They’ve got a full service agreement, and the OEM is [00:28:00] responsible for, um, doing the leading edge erosion repairs and protection replacement, but the owner is on the hook for paying for it.

At the other end, we’ve got people with full service agreements where technically the, um, manufacturer is supposed to be doing the leading edge protection and paying for it, but they argue about what, when does it need to be done. Because, you know, um, the operator might think if there’s no structural risk, then we don’t need to be replacing it.

And in the meantime, you’ve got turbines spinning around for years and years and years with, you know, these huge flakes of leading edge protection s- you know, causing the flow at the tip of the turbine to, to detach and to stall, and horrible aerodynamics, huge losses in power generation and revenue. And they’re having a big fight about, you know, is this necessary to do or not?

And then, you know, they’re just gonna put the exact same product on again ’cause the [00:29:00] OEMs are re- all really, really wedded to their own particular brand. It’s like, “Well, last time we had this product and it was factory applied, it lasted one year before it s- it was worse than, you know, if it wasn’t there at all.

Uh, we don’t really want you to put that one on again.” And so, you know, having the information that they need to be able to, you know, really bring data to these discussions and, you know, makes a, yeah, data not drama. That’s a, a good approach I think, um, for any kind of negotiation and especially in the case of leading edge erosion.

And then for the high temperature fatigue part of the problem, aside from, you know, just wanting to know are your blades aging, should you be looking at remediation action or changing the operation, the other really big key thing is, uh, you might need to have a fight with y- your OEM about if this turbine has been designed and operated correctly.

And so then having the data from this, um, project is going to give you the information that you need to come into that [00:30:00] argument with, again, the data not the drama. Um, and to, you know, in- increase your chances of succeeding in that kind of really tricky negotiation. 

Allen Hall 2025: So if you’re an OEM or a manufacturer of equipment, an ISP, an operator, pretty much all aspects of wind operations, you probably ought to be getting a hold of Pardalote Consulting and Rosemary to talk about the opportunity to participate in this study.

How do people get ahold of you to, to do that? 

Rosemary Barnes: People can go to our website, pardaloteconsulting.com, and get in touch via the contact form there, or you can, uh, look me up on LinkedIn, Rosemary Barnes. That’s probably the easiest, fastest way to get ahold of me personally. 

Allen Hall 2025: Well, Rosemary, congratulations on the Energy Innovation Fund Awards and the new three-year effort.

If you are interested in participating with Pardalote Consulting and working with Rosemary and her team [00:31:00] in Australia, reach out to her on LinkedIn and get that process started, because this report and the data from all this analysis that’ll happen over the next couple of years will be important to the wind industry.

So you need to spend some time and get ahold of Rosemary and get this process started now. So Rosemary, congratulations. Uh, thanks for being back on the podcast, and looking forward to, uh, the next couple of years. It sh- should be exciting. 

Rosemary Barnes: Thanks so much, Allen.

GE Vernova posts a record quarter as gas and grid surge while wind orders drop 40%. Plus Envision grid-connects its first AI turbine for Fortescue. Visit https://woma2027.com/ to register speaking and sponsorship interest!

Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!

If you haven’t visited woma2027.com, you should do so right now because we are putting together all of the, uh, events at WOMA 2027, which is March 3rd through 5th in Melbourne at the Pullman, Matthew, Pullman East? Pullman East Melbourne. And it’s packed full. Our, in fact, actually, we have so many people applying to attend the event, we’re getting a little nervous on if the size of the venue is not large enough, and we, we have a lot of people already chime in wanting to be sponsors, which is great.

But I wanna talk about what you will experience at WOMA. We’ve done it for two years now, and the feedback has been great. And Yolanda, you’ve been to the one just this past February, and participated in panels and saw some of the, uh, workshops and was involved in a lot of WOMA 2026. What are you expecting in 2027, and what did you think of 2026?

Yolanda Padron: I thought [00:01:00] 2026 was great. I loved seeing everybody there. Uh, got to meet a lot of new people. It was, it was sweet. There was a lot of r- people returning from WOMA 2025, um, and a lot of new people that were told that that was the event to be at to learn about wind, which was really, really nice to hear. Uh, something that I loved, especially since we’ve been through quite a few conferences since then and before then, was just the fact that, like, you’re, you’re just talking about problems and just talking about solutions, and you’re talking about real stories, and it’s nothing that’s super, super public.

You know, like, you, you can have real conversations with real people. I know during a panel I mentioned a, a solution to an issue that I had seen that was kind of niche, and then, uh, like three minutes later, like I had had some people come up to me and we all talked about the problem that we saw and then [00:02:00]talked about their problem, and it was really similar, and obviously in a totally different continent.

And it was, it was good to, to be able to have those conversations that you usually wouldn’t have elsewhere, especially if everything’s just really, really public and just big and you’re having a lot of people sell at you, and it’s, it’s just something that we’ve really shied away from. What, what was your favorite part of it?

Matthew Stead: I, I think, um, it was really the fact that it was a a technical, useful, helpful conference rather than having some rando talking about things that they’re told to talk to you about 

Allen Hall: It’s real answers from real problem solvers. And everybody’s gonna be in Melbourne on the 3rd through the 5th of March 2027.

If you’re interested in attending, you need to go to woma2027.com. If you’re interested in sponsoring, it’s also woma2027.com. There’s limited [00:03:00]sponsorship left, so if you wanna do something, you better get in quick. And if you wanna attend the event, and I suggest that you do, that you visit woma2027.com and get registered today

The Uptime Wind Energy podcast, brought to you by StrikeTape. Protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit StrikeTape.com. And now, your hosts

Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy podcast. I’m your host, Allen Hall. I’m here with Rosemary Barnes, Matthew Stead, and Yolanda Padron. It’s been a busy day as we record because GE just announced its second quarter earnings and a bunch of things about the business. They had an investor call early, early, early on the East Coast, and even earlier for those on the West Coast of the US, and it was a very good quarter for GE, but a really lopsided one.

Uh, GE Vernova reported second quarter orders of [00:04:00] $24.2 billion, up 88% with a backlog that has now climbed to $176 billion. Free cash came in at $5.1 billion. Man, $5.1 billion is a lot of cash, everybody, which is more than the company generated in all of last year. So they made more in one quarter in cash than made in all of last year, and management is raising its full year guidance, but the strength is coming from gas power and the electric grid, not from wind.

The wind segment saw orders fall 40% and revenue slip 10%, and the company still expects wind to lose about $400 million this year. Although in the investor call, they did say that the forecast for wind in Q3 and maybe even Q4 was to be essentially break even on the EBITDA scale. So that’s a, a, a good number.

It does seem like GE is being more [00:05:00] aggressive on pricing and selective on the projects they are choosing to participate with. Repowers was way down, if I remember correctly. Uh, they are not doing a lot of that at the moment. So there is a slowdown they’re seeing in wind, but they’re more than making up for it in gas turbines and electrification.

Orders for gas turbines are out to ’30, ’31, and I think they’re gonna close out all of ’30, ’31, um, book orders for gas turbines here shortly. So if you want a gas turbine, Matthew, you’re gonna have to get in line because your GE has a long list of, of clients in front of them. What does this mean for wind?

When I hear the discussion where GE is focused on gas and electrification because of the huge cash flow that comes in their door- Does that mean a good positive things for wind because they have the cash to kinda hang around wind? Or is it gonna be set aside for other [00:06:00] more profitable business segments?

I 

Matthew Stead: mean, GE’s had a number of setbacks over the years. Um, you know, we know, we know all about them. We’ve been talking about them, you know, multiple times. But, you know, they’ve gotta just wait it out, don’t they? Um, you know, wind is not gonna go away, so they just need to wait it out, get their problems out of the way, get their cash flow in, build the order books again, just wait for things to improve.

Um, I, I think one thing I just wanna pull out, the Sands Ear, i- isn’t that a massive achievement? 

Allen Hall: It is. It’s, it’s a colossal engineering achievement on its own. Forget about just delivering and manufacturing all those turbines and getting them installed. And that’s a pattern energy project, and Fairwind I think was involved with that in terms of project development, EPC items.

It’s huge. It’s gigantic. But it may be the last one we see in the United States for a while. 

Matthew Stead: And but Vineyard, you know, they’ve gotta resolve that, don’t they? We’ve spoken about that before. Get that one out the way, clear out the decks and, yeah. That’ll come good. 

Allen Hall: Rosemary, of our former GE [00:07:00] employees, I guess we have two of them here.

I’m one. Not of wind, but of another division. What’s your thoughts on GE Vernova at the minute? 

Rosemary Barnes: These days I see them through the O&M lens. That’s how I work with them, is when my clients need support for all their wind farms and It’s just, it’s just never enough. It’s not a GE-specific thing. Uh, you know, across Australia, anybody with a full service agreement does not…

Uh, the, the company performing that agreement just gives the impression that they just do not have enough, um, uh, enough people. Y- you know? It’s just, just hands or maybe it’s budget. Uh, I guess it, it’s both at the same time. Yeah, I mean, I see some good things like their, the pace of new technologies has slowed and they’re consolidating, which was needed, but it’s just hard to imagine that it’s even gonna be enough considering how many fewer blade engineers that they’ve got now.

Like, how are they, [00:08:00] how are they going to get the, you know, the issues with the platforms that they are, uh, pushing, how are they gonna get all that under control with so many fewer engineers? And will they ever be able to, you know, go back to innovating a- again when they’ve lost so much of their, you know, institutional knowledge?

Allen Hall: Two things they did not mention during the phone call today or in any of the documents that I saw was TPI Composites and that EPC has acquired that and is now operating the factories, uh, making GE blades. And LM Wind Power was not discussed either, although LM Wind Power has been integrated into the overall financials of the company, so it’s not a standalone financial entity like it was last year.

So you can’t really r- read the tea leaves of what’s happening at LM, but nobody talked about or even asked on the investor call what was happening on the wind side. They were very interested in gas turbines and what the order rate was going to be, and GE was concerned [00:09:00] on their side, saying that they’re trying to ramp up production to make more gas turbines, but there’s limitations to how much they can do.

Rosemary Barnes: I guess that’s the s- the zeitgeist now, right? Or it’s the, I don’t know, like, it’s, it’s a sign of the times. Everyone’s obsessed with data centers, and for some reason, data centers are obsessed with gas turbines, um, even though, like, it’s not a fast solution to, uh, y- you know, to, to anything. So I don’t… You know, I’m not saying that building a, you know, a wind farm or solar farms, batteries, those are not without challenges.

But I really don’t think that the, yeah, gas turbine challenge is so much easier than the, um, yeah, than the renewables challenges. It’s a bit weird to me how everyone has just kind of latched onto, “Oh, you need new power, then it needs to be gas.” It’s just a bit weird to me. 

Allen Hall: GE was predicting a peak of orders in gas turbines to happen sometime in 2026.

They, they think that the demand curve is gonna trend downward because everybody is already in [00:10:00] line essentially, and it’s five years out, so not many other people are gonna join that line to make it seven, eight years out That also indicates that sort of the d- the demand for gas turbines may be waning a little bit, or there’s just a backlog, they just can’t produce more.

Is that going to then maybe finally open up the best solar wind discussion for AI data centers? 

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, I wonder if it’s partly because y- you know, in a lot of cases… So people wanna build data centers, and then those data centers need power. You can’t just plug into the grid in an easy, timely manner. So then now they’ve gotta BYO their own power, and in fact, in Australia they’ve just announced a, a policy where you will have to…

You can bring your own power, and it will have to be renewable, actually, in Australia. So, um, at least that’s, at least that’s a win for, you know, generation source. 

Allen Hall: Yeah. The, the AI data center discussion and gas turbines in the United States has more recently been focused [00:11:00] on, on the AI data centers that use those gas turbines, and the number of gas turbines that they’re choosing, and that they’re choosing gas turbines that fall under some sort of EPA threshold on size.

And what is happening, and which, uh, SpaceX has done and some others have done, is they go underneath that threshold on the size of the gas turbines, and then they, you know, and they daisy chain them together, right? So you, you… Instead of having one massive, I don’t know, two-megawatt generator of some sort, you have a bunch of 200 kilowatts, and you just stack them all together.

And the concern is, is that are some of these data centers violating EPA, the… If not the actual rule or the intent of the rule in terms of emissions, and it’s causing a little bit of a stink. It’s, it’s raised enough of, uh, the noise floor about it that you’re, you’re hearing it on podcasts, you’re hearing people involved in AI data ce- [00:12:00] data centers push back on it saying, “It’s all legal.

It’s all legal.” So it’s gonna come to a head pretty quickly in the United States. 

Rosemary Barnes: It was some real, like, real sketchy loophole finding, right? Like, I can’t remember the exact wording, but you’re not supposed to be able to just chuck in a diesel generator or a gas turbine in without any kind of planning, right?

But they found a loophole where it’s like, okay, well, you know, it’s just like a truck except for that there’s no truck, and so it was called, like- off-road or non-road use or something. And it’s just, like, clearly not the, um, the meaning of the, of the law, right? The spirit of the law had, like, obviously been broken.

In Australia we have a saying, the pub test. It doesn’t pass the pub test. Like, if you said that to someone in a pub, then they would be like, “What the hell is that? That is not right.” They have closed the loophole. However, I think that they also kind of quietly just allowed them to keep the ones that they had or had planned or something, so [00:13:00] it’s, like, overall by far not ideal.

But I think that it’s just, like, you can, you can do that for a single site, but it’s obviously, like, the more that you do ridiculous stuff like that, that you lose the community ac- acceptance, which they barely had and definitely don’t really have anymore. Um, and secondly, yeah, like people, uh, people close the loophole and they respond.

It’s, it’s much better, and we see it with wind as well. Like, yeah, you can do things technically by the law, but if you wanna have a, you know, sustainable, uh, industry through the years, through the decades, you actually have to kind of, you know, think, “What happens if I do y- push to the furthest extent of the law, um, to get away with whatever I can?”

What’s gonna happen is regulation is gonna come down on you and you’ll lose the ability to kind of self-regulate. 

Allen Hall: We’re gonna take a quick break, but when we come back we’ll meet a wind turbine that runs on artificial intelligence, Rosie.[00:14:00]

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In the red dirt of Western Australia, a mining company and a Chinese turbine maker are trying something new. Envision Energy says it has grid connected its first [00:15:00] artificial intelligence wind turbine prototype for Fortescue’s Nullagine Wind Project in Pilbara. The full project will use 17 of Envision’s EN182 turbines, each rated for 7.8 megawatts and built to handle mining sites, desert heat, and tough grid rules.

The turbines- The turbines pair a self-erecting tower from Nabler Wind with a hub standing an astonishing 188 meters tall. Behind it all sits Envision’s Energy Foundation Model software that company calls the world’s largest physical AI system. The goal is to swap diesel and gas for wind across the mine’s fleet and processing sites.

So this is an effort by Fortescue to power mining operations with electricity. It’s a pretty ex- exciting [00:16:00] project if you’re watching. The Envision artificial intelligence piece is an aspect that I didn’t know much about, and I still am trying to gather more information on, because there’s not a ton of info about what AI means in terms of a physical system.

And maybe Rosie, you know a little bit more, or Yolande, you can brief us on what this really is. 

Rosemary Barnes: We just need to start with a pronunciation lesson, Allen. Sorry. 

Matthew Stead: Not Pilbara, Pilbara. Pilbara. 

Rosemary Barnes: I, I don’t actually… I hadn’t heard that part about AI and that it doesn’t… I, I don’t know. It’s, it’s such a buzzword that it might not mean anything, you know.

However, there’s so many cool aspects to that project that aren’t related to AI. Um, yeah, the tower height, the tower erection technology. I’m interested to hear that they have taken the heat of the environment into [00:17:00] consideration, ’cause that’s one of the, my obsessions actually, as long as I’ve been working on wind turbines, and ever since I found out how, you know, the materials qualification and certification process works, that it just doesn’t take into account the really high temperatures.

That’s one of the projects that Padlo has going on at the moment, is, um, putting sensors on some turbines to, like, look into that more. Um, yeah, because we do see in Australia a lot of sites have, you know, even within a few years, they might have 20 years of operation left, but we already see a whole lot of cracks that look suspiciously like end of, end of life fatigue cracks on them.

So yeah, we are looking into that more, and it’s very interesting to hear that Envision have taken the heat into consideration. I hope it includes the blade structure as well as just, you know, other turbine components, electronics, and that sort of thing. 

Allen Hall: It does sound like they’re pairing batteries or BESS with wind turbines, where the BESS is located at the base of the turbine.

That would make sense in [00:18:00] Australia, particularly around where mines are, because it tends to be very remote, and storing electricity would make sense. The Discussions I’ve seen on YouTube deal with more on the energy trading side, that the wind turbine stores energy, of course, and it does it very efficiently into the best system, and then the AI system sits on top of that to help arbitrage the energy that’s stored in the battery to make more money.

Not a bad way of doing it, but it does lead to a ton of questions about national security, the use of AI, the, uh, and how this is all going to integrate together from a asset manager side. Yolande, I know in the United States we have a lot of restrictions about the technology that is in wind turbines and the, and the firewalls that exist there, where you, you can’t even plug into a wind turbine without having a lot of approvals.

Is AI coming in wind [00:19:00] turbines in the US and the rest of the world, or is this mostly a Western Australia event? 

Yolanda Padron: We talked a little bit about a trading company a couple episodes ago, right? And that was a… It sounded like it’s, it’s coming. Um, I, when I first read the article that we’re talking about for Fortescue, I thought this was more of, like, a SCADA self-learning AI type thing, where, like It, it kind of learns from the, from itself, and then maybe it, it tells you you’re more likely to be seeing some sort of blade issue that wasn’t shown before 

Rosemary Barnes: I heard, um, Andrew Forrest speak at a smart energy conference earlier this year, and he was talking about not for, um, not for wind, but for the solar and battery projects that they’ve already got there.

He called it a self-healing grid, and AI was the technology that enabled that. And so he, [00:20:00] he was saying, and I can’t remember the, the details specifically either, but when there was a, a disturbance, something that would’ve caused the, you know, without the AI, um, you know, layer looking after everything, a fault that would’ve shut the whole site down was able to self, self-heal with no interruption to supply.

Um, and that that was the kind of AI that, uh, they were talking about. I believe that the new wind farm addition to that is the same sort of thing, where they’re looking at, you know, a very complex system with… I mean, they don’t have energy prices to deal with, uh, in that case because it’s self-contained.

They’re not conne- connected to any external grid. Um, but you know, they’ve got wind, they’ve got solar, they’ve got, uh, so obviously weather conditions related to those two going on. They’ve got batteries, they’ve got, you know, yeah, the, um, availability of every single different… of probably many [00:21:00] thousands of different components in that system that, um, y- you know, you need to make sure that if there’s a failure or when there’s a failure in any one or combination of those things, that you’re always going to be able to reroute around that and kind of heal itself.

So it probably does include some of, of what you were saying, Yolanda, but I think when they say this is the biggest physical AI, like, I think that that might be a little bit of a meaningless term because y- you know, like, there’s AI… It, it could be like… I, I don’t know. It, like, what, what does that mean?

Like, if you have AI that is, um, you know, playing some role in controlling America’s electricity grids, then that would be the biggest, the biggest one, even if it was, you know, like a tiny little, playing a tiny role. I, I, I don’t know what that specifically means and… Is it bad marketing ’cause it’s just confusing and makes you assume that it’s, um, just meaningless buzzword cool [00:22:00]sounding thing 

Allen Hall: It’s probably genius marketing because they attach AI to whatever the product is.

So we have AI lightning diverters at Weather Guard. EOLOGIX-PING has AI CMS, and Partload has whatever Partload does, AI-Partload. So that’s the smart move, th- uh, because it does seem to raise the value 

Rosemary Barnes: But you know what? Partload is anti-AI because 90% of our work is you get, you know, drone inspections, and they use AI, and then it w- and it works really, w- it works really…

I’d never wanna make it sound like it is bad technology because, you know, the status quo before we had drones with using AI was to just not inspect your blades. So, you know, like, we’re doing much better than that now. But everything that we do is where AI was not able to do it or AI did it wrong. So y- you know, um, like I- we use AI in that everything that comes into us is AI.

Allen Hall: Well, if the same AI [00:23:00] technology that is reviewing blade images is being applied inside of a wind turbine, what do you see as a likely outcome there, Rosemary? 

Rosemary Barnes: Well, it’s not, I mean, it’s not the, it’s not the same. And like I said, uh, it’s very easy for me to be like, “Oh, AI, you know, makes all these mistakes,” but it, I only see the mistakes.

I don’t see the 90%-plus of correctly categorized things. I don’t, they’re not relevant to me. Um- Uh, but I think for controlling a complex system, like it, it is… That, that’s a really great application. I mean, I think it’s like with any like super hyped up technology, it’s like really useful in a few things, and that’s what leads to the hype, and then people start to just wanna apply it everywhere.

It becomes the, you know, like when the only tool you’ve got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Like, that’s where we’re at. Like AI is this, um, is this hammer that we’ve got, and everyone wants to solve every problem with it. And I do it myself, you know. Like I hate writing LinkedIn posts, and so I’ll work with, with Claude or, um, I [00:24:00] use NotebookLM as well to, you know, I draft my LinkedIn post.

And you’re like, “Well, th- no, that sucks. Do this, do this, do this.” And then, you know, like half an hour later, you’re like, okay, I could very easily have written my own post in less time, and I could… I, I try again and again because I just, I, uh, you know, hate that kind of writing so much. But yeah, I think that like economy-wide, that’s the problem, that everyone is just trying to whack every problem with AI regardless of whether it’s the right one.

Allen Hall: Okay, so there’s gonna be products that are gonna incorporate AI or have AI somewhere hyphenated in the name of the product. What products should not be using AI right now? 

Matthew Stead: Yeah, I think there’s… Uh, I wanna add to the… You know, go back a few steps. That calling this the largest, you know, physical AI device is complete rubbish really.

That’s stupid, really. It’s like, like, like what you said, Rosie. It’s like putting an AI machine on a road, and then it becomes the world’s largest AI infrastructure. I mean, that was, that was pretty stupid, um, [00:25:00] really. And that, that’s just marketing. My, my view is if you can’t explain what it does, you shouldn’t be using the word AI So in marketing, you know, you can’t just say, “Oh, it’s AI ’cause I don’t understand what it does.”

You should actually be able to explain, “This is what this product does, and this is why it does it, and we use AI to help make that occur in a smart way.” Rather than just being randomly talking about, um, AI solving all of these complex issues and not actually knowing how it’s done is rubbish. 

Rosemary Barnes: To answer your question, Allen, I think AI shouldn’t be used for most creative stuff.

Like video, um, creation, everybody hates it, and companies keep on pushing it, and it sucks. And I think also it’s kind of… It, it makes people so angry, I think it’s gonna backfire if it hasn’t already for most, [00:26:00] most people that are using it. Um, yeah, so that would be one thing. And also, uh, you shouldn’t use too much AI for, like, I see it heaps on LinkedIn now, and it’s, it’s kind of…

Like, at the first time you use AI, you’re like, “Whoa, th- this is pretty, pretty good. Like, this is something, you know, like I could… That’s very similar to the stuff that I, yeah, used to post on LinkedIn or the infographics that I used to make.” But the issue is that, like, it looks that way the first time, but then once you use it a bit and you can recognize that it’s AI, then you see it everywhere and it, it turns you, really turns you off whoever’s put it out there.

And so, like, there’s so much on LinkedIn now where it’s, like, just AI-generated things. It’s… Even if, you know, like, if an expert has created it and edited it afterwards and made sure that the output is accurate, then I wouldn’t call it AI slop. But it is also, like, it’s always too [00:27:00] wordy. It’s, um, you know, it’s just like the style is just clearly e- the h- if the point is that you’re trying to express, “I’m an expert.

These are my expert opinions. I know what I’m talking about,” AI is not doing that for you. Like, you write your post or create your graphic with AI, it’s just not doing that for you. So I think that that is another example of where people shouldn’t be using AI. 

Allen Hall: That wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy podcast.

If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us on LinkedIn. And if you found value in today’s conversation, please leave us a review. It really helps other wind energy professionals discover the show. And please, please, please don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode.

For Rosie, Yolande, and Matthew, I’m Allen Hall, and we’ll see you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy [00:28:00] podcast.