GOTO - The Brightest Minds in Tech

This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club.
http://gotopia.tech/bookclub

Check out more here:
https://gotopia.tech/episodes/449

Simon Brown - Author & Creator of "The C4 Model"
Susanne Kaiser - Independent Tech Consultant & Author of "Architecture for Flow"

RESOURCES
Simon
https://simonbrown.je
https://bsky.app/profile/simonbrown.je
https://twitter.com/simonbrown
https://linkedin.com/in/simonbrownjersey
https://c4model.com

Susanne
https://bsky.app/profile/suksr.bsky.social
https://mastodon.social/@suksr
https://www.linkedin.com/in/susannekaiser1
https://susannekaiser.net

Links
https://structurizr.com

DESCRIPTION
Simon Brown explains that the C4 Model started not as a grand design theory, but as a practical answer to an embarrassing problem: running a workshop on architecture diagramming, he realized he couldn't understand any of the diagrams being produced. The model formalized his own consulting practice of hierarchical handover documentation — context diagram at the top, containers below, components and code at the bottom — giving it a name and making it teachable. His core advice is to start with just the top two levels: context and container diagrams. These change infrequently, are quick to draw, and deliver immediate value. Levels three and four — components and code — are included for completeness but age rapidly with every commit, and in most cases aren't worth the maintenance overhead.

Two especially practical insights emerge from the conversation. First, how to handle microservices: if your team owns all the services inside a system boundary, each service is a collection of C4 containers; if you depend on another team's service that you can't see inside, model it as an opaque software system. This maps naturally to how domain boundaries and team ownership actually work in practice. Second, the surprisingly important distinction between modeling and diagramming: C4's real value is the shared vocabulary — systems, containers, components, code — not the visual notation itself. Teams using entirely different tooling can communicate clearly because they've agreed on what the words mean. Simon is firm that there will be no C4 v2; the model is intentionally lightweight, and adding more would risk turning it into the next UML — comprehensive, heavy, and largely abandoned.

RECOMMENDED BOOKS
Simon Brown • The C4 Model • https://amzn.to/4xB9V33
Susanne Kaiser • Adaptive Systems With Domain-Driven Design, Wardley Mapping & Team Topologies • https://amzn.to/3XTmNCc
Nick Rozanski &, Eóin Woods • Software Systems Architecture • https://amzn.to/4cOLtTv
van Kelle, Verschatse &Baas-Schwegler • Collaborative Software Design • https://amzn.to/4iv0N8I
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This interview was recorded at GOTO Copenhagen 2025.
https://gotocph.com

Adrian Mouat - Developer Relations at Chainguard & Author of "Using Docker"
Kief Morris - Author of "Infrastructure as Code" & Distinguished Engineer at Thoughtworks
Sam Newman - Author of "Building Microservices" & "Monolith to Microservices"

RESOURCES
Adrian
https://bsky.app/profile/adrianmouat.com
https://twitter.com/adrianmouat
https://github.com/amouat
https://linkedin.com/in/adrianmouat
http://www.adrianmouat.com

Kief
https://bsky.app/profile/kief.com
https://twitter.com/kief
https://github.com/kief
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kiefmorris
https://infrastructure-as-code.com
https://kief.com

Sam
https://twitter.com/samnewman
https://www.linkedin.com/in/samnewman
http://samnewman.io
http://samnewman.io/blog
https://github.com/snewman

ABSTRACT
In this session, Sam Newman will interview Kief Morris and Adrian Mouat, both experts in their field. We will explore the current reality of security in the container world, how infrastructure automation is impacted by AI, and whether platform teams are actually working. We’ll also be taking lots of questions from the audience! [...]

Read the full abstract here:
https://gotocph.com/2025/sessions/3938

RECOMMENDED BOOKS
Adrian Mouat • Using Docker • https://amzn.to/3PEYIJL
Liz Rice • Container Security • https://amzn.to/3oU4iJe
Kief Morris • Infrastructure as Code • https://amzn.to/4e6EBQc
Sam Newman • Building Resilient Distributed Systems • https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/building-resilient-distributed/9781098163532
Sam Newman • Monolith to Microservices • https://amzn.to/2Nml96E
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This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club.
http://gotopia.tech/bookclub

Elisabeth Hendrickson - Advisor, Coach, Speaker & Co-Author of "Signals & Levers"
Joel Tosi - Co-Founder & CTO at Dojo & Co & Co-Author of "Signals & Levers"
Charles Humble - Freelance Techie, Podcaster, Editor, Author & Consultant

Check out more here:
https://gotopia.tech/episodes/448

RESOURCES
Elisabeth
https://ruby.social/@testobsessed
https://github.com/testobsessed
https://www.linkedin.com/in/testobsessed
https://curiousduck.io

Joel
https://mastodon.social/@joeltosi
https://www.linkedin.com/in/joel-tosi-531a3b

Charles
https://bsky.app/profile/charleshumble.bsky.social
https://linkedin.com/in/charleshumble
https://mastodon.social/@charleshumble
https://conissaunce.com

Links
https://ruthmalan.com
http://www.ask-force.org/web/Discourse/Rittel-Dilemmas-General-Theory-Planning-1973.pdf

DESCRIPTION
Elisabeth Hendrickson and Joel Tosi open by explaining why systems thinking is having a moment right now: organizations that went all-in on Agile and DevOps are finding those returns plateauing, and the rise of AI is forcing engineering teams to reexamine where their real bottlenecks are. The book, Signals & Levers, gives software engineers a practical vocabulary and toolkit for that examination. A core insight is that most organizational dysfunction isn't caused by bad people or bad intentions, but by systems that produce bad outcomes predictably and structurally. The named archetypes in the book — over 20 of them, covering patterns like escalating technical debt, the "fixes that fail" loop, and the boiling frog — give teams a shared language to recognize and reason about those patterns without having to discover them from scratch.

The most practically actionable section of the conversation covers signals versus levers: understanding the difference between information (a signal) and an intervention point (a lever) is the foundation for making changes that actually work rather than changes that feel productive and achieve nothing. On AI, both authors are cautious in the right ways: Elisabeth uses it daily as a thinking partner but keeps herself firmly at the steering wheel. Joel's warning is starker — AI amplifies whatever is already true about your organization, including dysfunction, and if it lets you ship faster than you can learn, the consequences may be severe. The book closes with an exercise for the reader: if AI doubles your delivery speed, what happens when you can ship faster than you can adapt?

RECOMMENDED BOOKS
Elisabeth Hendrickson & Joel Tosi • Signals & Levers • https://amzn.to/4g6Fb3C
Diana Montalion • Learning Systems Thinking • https://amzn.to/3ZpycdJ
Don Norman • The Design of Everyday Things • https://amzn.to/4fV6QVl
Gene Kim • The Unicorn Project • https://amzn.to/3woXQDz
Gene Kim, Kevin Behr & George Spafford • The Phoenix Project • https://amzn.to/3X9cYxa
Peter Degrace & Leslie Hulet Stahl • Wicked Problems, Righteous Solutions • https://amzn.to/3ScP0D9
Frederick Brooks Jr. • The Mythical Man-Month • https://amzn.to/4gd10OV
Gerald Weinberg • An Introduction to General Systems Thinking • https://amzn.to/4dZCsaO
Donella H. Meadows • Thinking in Systems • https://amzn.to/3XtqYCV
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This interview was recorded for GOTO Unscripted.
https://gotopia.tech

Luca Mezzalira - Solutions Architect, Consultant, International Speaker & Author of "Building Micro-Frontends"
Teena Idnani - Senior Solutions Architect at Microsoft & Woman in Tech Leader

Check out more here:
https://gotopia.tech/articles/447

RESOURCES
Luca
https://www.buildingmicrofrontends.com
https://twitter.com/lucamezzalira
https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucamezzalira
https://linktr.ee/lucamezzalira
https://lucamezzalira.com

Teena
https://www.linkedin.com/in/teenaidnani

DESCRIPTION
Luca Mezzalira and Teena Idnani open with a clear framing: AI is accelerating certain tasks architects do, but the fundamentals — understanding context, connecting technical decisions to business capability, designing for evolutionary systems — are unchanged and arguably more important than ever. Luca identifies what he calls the shift from a T-shaped to an "M-shaped" architect: broader and deeper simultaneously, using AI as a research accelerator that collapses days of trade-off analysis into hours. Both agree that the biggest current risk isn't that AI will replace architects, but that AI-generated code can look convincingly correct and pass initial testing while concealing edge-case failures that only surface under load, regulatory audit, or upstream change — particularly dangerous in regulated industries like finance.

The conversation sharpens around what architects must double down on to stay relevant. Luca advocates for merging deterministic and probabilistic systems through harness engineering — combining linters, static analysis, and deterministic guardrails with AI code assistants to produce more predictable outcomes. More broadly, both conclude that empathy is now a core technical skill: the architect's real job is riding the "elevator" between the engine room and the C-suite, translating freely in both directions. Luca's rule of thumb has shifted from 70% people and context, 30% technical — to nearly 90/10 in the AI era. The competitive edge for architects, they agree, is not in generating code, but in knowing which problems are worth solving and why.

RECOMMENDED BOOKS
Luca Mezzalira • Building Micro-Frontends • https://amzn.to/4ekqV5Y
Luca Mezzalira • Front-End Reactive Architectures • https://amzn.to/43a8VVJ
Gregor Hohpe • The Software Architect Elevator • https://amzn.to/3F6d2ax
Gregor Hohpe • Enterprise Integration Patterns, Vol 2 • https://amzn.to/3TNedQ3
Bluesky
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This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club.
http://gotopia.tech/bookclub

Dennis Hansen - Air Force Veteran, Chief Systems Engineer & Author of "Model-Based Systems Engineering and Requirements Definition"
Jorge Orellana - Model Based Systems Engineer at IERUS Technologies & CEO & Founder at SCATTERBRAINS

Check out more here:
https://gotopia.tech/episodes/445

RESOURCES
Jorge
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jorge-orellana-0b729129

DESCRIPTION
Dennis Hansen brings over six decades of systems engineering experience to this GOTO Book Club conversation — from Air Force airborne navigation technician to Chief Systems Engineer at L3Harris on programs including the complete rebuild of the GOES-R ground system for NOAA and NASA. His book argues that the fundamental failure mode in complex system development is the same every time: requirements are defined too loosely, too late, or across multiple model layers simultaneously. He structures the approach using an onion model — a layering framework he was taught by a Motorola engineer in 1961 — where each layer (mission, capabilities, activities, technical requirements, specifications) must be completed before the next is begun. Skipping layers or trying to do two at once invariably produces excess or faulty requirements that surface as expensive failures during system testing, or worse, after deployment.

The second half of the conversation focuses on why modeling tools are databases, not drawing programs — a distinction Dennis considers critical. Every element in the model carries its associated requirements and the reasoning behind design decisions, which means that when you return to work after a weekend, you don't lose hours reconstructing your thinking. More importantly, when change requests arrive — and they always do — a maintained model lets you trace the impact backwards through the system and understand exactly what has to be modified, rather than slapping on a fix that creates five new problems. Dennis's closing advice is the thread that runs through the entire book: collaborate at every stage, every discipline working together rather than in silos, and define things properly upfront. Everything else follows from that.

RECOMMENDED BOOKS
Dennis Hansen • Model-Based Systems Engineering and Requirements Definition • https://amzn.to/4e6IiqJ
Kossiakoff, Seymour, Flanigan & Biemer • Systems Engineering Principles and Practice • https://amzn.to/4a7Elj9
Dr. Bruce Powel Douglass • Agile Model-Based Systems Engineering Cookbook • https://amzn.to/4wYnj12
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