Unchained

Austin Griffith joins Kain Warwick and Taylor Monahan to unpack BonkDAO's $20M governance heist, and Kain's case for giving founders more control.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

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A single wallet spent $4.4 million buying up Bonk tokens, then used that stake to push through a governance proposal that legally emptied BonkDAO's roughly $20 million treasury a week later, with almost no one watching the vote.

Austin Griffith, Ethereum Foundation developer and creator of Scaffold-ETH and founder of BuidlGuidl, joins Kain Warwick and Taylor Monahan to use the heist as a jumping-off point for Kain's real target: ENS. Kain argues founder Nick Johnson should retake control over building and product from the DAO, and makes the case that founder-led execution beats decentralized governance almost every time.

They also cover Vitalik's Lean Ethereum overhaul and why Austin says it will barely change what he builds, the $1 AI audit he launched as a meme for x402 agent payments, Robinhood's new chain and the pay-to-play deals behind it, and why Kain now argues tokens are the wrong way to raise money.

If a founder with total conviction can outperform a DAO built to stop exactly that, the DAO experiment may be further from finished than anyone wants to admit.

Hosts:

⁠⁠Kain Warwick⁠⁠ - Host of Uneasy Money and Founder of Infinex and Synthetix

⁠⁠Taylor Monahan⁠⁠ - Co-host of Uneasy Money and Security Expert

Guests:

⁠Austin Griffith - Ethereum Foundation developer and creator of Scaffold-ETH and SpeedRun Ethereum, and founder of BuidlGuidl

Timestamps

🛠️ 01:32 Why Austin says Vitalik's Lean Ethereum overhaul barely changes his job

📅 08:21 Taylor on why the EF ships huge roadmaps but too little in the short term

🪓 12:56 Austin on surviving the EF's leaner reorg and the wave of departures

💵 15:43 How Austin turned a serious auditing tool into a viral meme

🤝 18:48 x402 skill files: why agents will soon pay other agents for on-tap skills

💙 25:44 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months of privacy first mobile service at https://cape.co/unchained

🚨 26:41 How one wallet legally voted its way to BonkDAO's $20M treasury

⚖️ 32:57 Why Kain thinks Nick Johnson and ENS should take power back from the DAO

🤖 55:29 Robinhood's new chain and Kain's take on crypto's pay-to-play problem

🪙 58:29 Why Kain says tokens are now the wrong tool to raise money
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Vladimir Novakovski of Lighter joins the Chopping Block crew to untangle one of crypto's oldest debates: what happens when tokens and equity coexist. The gang digs into the Venice/VVV controversy, breaks down Lighter's new Perps integration with Robinhood Chain and the fragmentation questions it raises, dissects the wild BonkDAO governance exploit, and reacts to the eye-popping $2.4 billion in crypto income disclosed in Trump's financial filings.

Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto, joined this week by special guest Vladimir Novakovski of Lighter.

The crew dives deep into the resurfaced tokens-versus-equity debate sparked by Dragonfly's investment in Venice and its VVV token, with Haseeb making the case that Venice is fundamentally different from Uniswap Labs style structures. Vlad explains how Lighter has approached the same dilemma through programmatic buybacks and a single C corp structure, and the group debates fiduciary duties, Delaware law, and what a merged DeFi/TradFi future for equity and tokens might look like. From there, they unpack Lighter's big Robinhood Chain announcement, including Lighter's new role as the native Perps engine inside Robinhood Wallet, and whether running a separate instance fragments liquidity. The episode wraps with a breakdown of the BonkDAO governance exploit that let an attacker vote themselves $20 million in tokens, and a reaction to Trump's staggering $2.4 billion in pre-tax crypto income revealed in his latest financial disclosure.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Show highlights

🔹 Haseeb breaks down why Venice's VVV token is not equity and not a Uniswap style governance token in disguise

🔹 Vlad explains how Lighter's programmatic buybacks and single C corp structure align token holders and equity holders

🔹 The gang debates Delaware fiduciary law, shareholder primacy, and what happens when buyback capital runs dry

🔹 Vlad lays out the vision of tokenized equity merging with crypto tokens into a single on-chain asset

🔹 Lighter's Robinhood Chain deal goes live with Lighter powering native Perps trading inside Robinhood Wallet

🔹 Vlad addresses concerns about liquidity fragmentation across separate Lighter instances

🔹 BonkDAO gets exploited as an attacker buys governance tokens and votes themselves $20 million

🔹 Robert compares the Bonk exploit to the infamous Beanstalk and Compound Humpty governance attacks

🔹 Trump's financial disclosure reveals $2.4 billion in pre-tax crypto income, sparking a debate on crypto's political future

Hosts

⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly

⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly

⭐️Robert Leshner, Founder & CEO of Superstate

Guest

⭐️Vladimir Novakovski, Founder of Lighter

Timestamps

00:00 Intro

03:40 Tokens vs equity: the Venice VVV debate begins

06:12 Fiduciary duty, Delaware law, and Lighter's C corp structure

08:00 What happens when buyback capital runs out

12:42 Why Venice launched a token in the first place

19:18 Comparing VVV to BNB and overloaded crypto assets

25:28 Lighter's Robinhood Chain deal and native Perps launch

37:02 BonkDAO governance exploit and the $20M vote

44:02 Lessons from Beanstalk and Compound's Humpty saga

47:09 Trump's $2.4B crypto income disclosure reactions

Disclosures
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For years, Michael Saylor's Strategy was the market's most dependable Bitcoin buyer. Recently, it has done the opposite.

Strategy just sold 3,588 Bitcoin for roughly $216 million, its largest single tranche yet, deepening the question of whether Michael Saylor has become a structural seller instead of a buyer.

Ram Ahluwalia, Austin Campbell, and Chris Perkins break down the STRC dividend mechanics behind the sale, the bull case for a catch-up trade, and the bear case if Bitcoin never rallies back.

Hosts:

Austin Campbell, Host of Bits + Bips, Founder of Zero Knowledge Group, and Adjunct Professor at NYU Stern

Ram Ahluwalia, Co-host of Bits + Bips and CEO of Lumida

Chris Perkins, Co-host of Bits + Bips and Head of Franklin Crypto

This clip is from a longer conversation on Strategy's Bitcoin sale, the stablecoin wars, and the token versus equity debate. Full episode here: https://youtube.com/live/H3z68SYty0k

We go live every Monday at 4:30pm ET. Subscribe to catch it live.

Sponsor:

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Chapters:

💰 00:00 Strategy's record $216M Bitcoin sale: the numbers behind the disclosure

📉 01:14 mNAV falls below 1 for the first time, and the STRC dividend framework

🔁 02:31 Why Ram says selling Bitcoin beats issuing more MSTR shares

⚖️ 04:21 The bear case: what happens if Bitcoin doesn't rally from here

✈️ 05:24 Chris on Saylor's three-body problem after a week of conferences in London
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Strategy sold $260M of Bitcoin at a loss to fund dividends. Parker White of Apyx makes the case that it is smarter than it sounds.

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Thank you to our sponsor!

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Strategy just made its largest Bitcoin sale ever, offloading 3,588 BTC for $260 million at a loss to fund preferred dividends. Days earlier it unveiled a digital capital framework: a 12-month coverage rule, a hiked STRC dividend, and a $10 billion buyback plan. Markets calmed, but the moves raise a question: has Strategy stopped being a Bitcoin company?

Parker White, CFA, founding contributor and chief investment/operating officer at Apyx, pushes back on claims that funding dollar dividends with Bitcoin sales betrays Bitcoin's ethos, framing it as smart capital management. Shin presses him on whether investors now bet on Strategy's team, not Bitcoin.

They unpack short sellers' calculus, the 2027-2029 convertible cliff Matt Walsh pegs near $6.7 billion, and Apyx's apxUSD, a tokenized yield wrapper around STRC and SATA that depegged to 72 cents in the turmoil. White defends Apyx 2.0's redemption model against 'free put option' critics and responds to critic’s contention that Strategy resembles Terra/ Luna or FTX.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guests:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Parker White - CFA, Founding Contributor and Chief Investment/Operating Officer at Apyx

Timestamps

🏛️ 02:03 Parker on why Strategy's record Bitcoin sale to fund dividends is smart, not desperate

📋 06:24 How Strategy's new digital capital framework tries to calm the market's nerves

⚠️ 09:59 Laura and Parker spar over whether shorts or Strategy's own missteps sparked the selloff

💵 21:27 Whether prioritizing USD over Bitcoin marks a philosophical flip for Strategy

📣 26:28 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers at Fidelity today at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com

🔐 27:10 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months with code UNCHAINED at https://cape.co/unchained

⏳ 28:09 Why Parker isn't worried about Strategy's looming $6.7 billion convert cliff

🧩 34:56 Parker on how Apyx wraps STRC and SATA into a yield bearing onchain asset

📉 36:38 What caused apxUSD's drop to as low as 72 cents and the liquidity pull

🛡️ 41:10 Parker defends Apyx 2.0's redemption rules against the free put option critics

🔄 47:53 Parker on why comparing Strategy to Terra Luna or GBTC misreads the risk
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Ari Redbord sits down with Katherine, Jessi, and Vy to talk about SEC clarity, the onshore perps boom, and DeFi's opsec problem — plus why the U.S. should hack North Korea back.

Thank you to our sponsor!

Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet,
it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier
that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they
happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained
(use code: UNCHAINED).

The hosts of DEX in the City spend every week breaking down crypto's legal fights. This time, they're the ones answering the questions.

Ari Redbord, Global Head of Policy at TRM Labs, sits down with Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, Jessi Brooks, and Vy Le for a wide-ranging conversation on where crypto's regulatory and security battles are actually headed.

Vy traces her path from SEC enforcement to her case for "tech-neutral" rules: regulators should regulate outcomes, not technology. Katherine explains why DCMs have become crypto's hottest acronym, as true perps and prediction markets move onshore. And Jessi makes her push to stop calling North Korea's hacks "illicit finance" and start naming them a national security threat: Pyongyang, she notes, is funding a weapons program with stolen crypto. Ari goes further — if North Korea can steal hundreds of millions from DeFi, the U.S. should steal it back. Vy pushes back on the panic over the recent hacks: most, she argues, weren't broken smart contracts at all, just sloppy operational security.

The conversation covers SEC clarity, the CFTC's moment, DeFi security, on-chain privacy, and what it really takes to keep the ecosystem safe.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ari Redbord - Global Head of Policy at TRM Labs and Host of TRM Talks

Hosts:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel. Previously held senior legal roles across DeFi and centralized exchanges.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vy Le⁠⁠⁠ - Co-host of DEX in the City and General Counsel of Veda

Timestamps
🛡️ 02:29 OFAC's first IRGC-linked exchange sanctions on Zedcex and Zedxion

🧭 05:20 How Vy, Katherine, and Jessi went from the SEC, BigLaw, and DOJ into crypto

🎙️ 14:10 The origin story behind the DEX in the City name and its all-women cast

🏛️ 18:25 Vy on the SEC trading ambiguity for rules, and "tech-neutral" regulation

📈 22:36 Katherine on why DCMs are suddenly crypto's hottest acronym

💙 25:38 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months with code unchained at https://cape.co/unchained

🩹 26:12 Jessi on reframing illicit finance around victims, not just enforcement

🔐 30:03 Jessi and Vy on Drift, Kelp, and why the recent hacks were ops failures

🕵️ 34:52 Katherine on why privacy is necessary for on-chain markets

🔮 40:04 Lightning round: Jessi on agentic finance, Katherine on perps, Vy on vaults
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