The Regenaissance Podcast

I chat with Chaz Self of Grassway Organics about his fight to keep selling raw milk in Wisconsin, the decline of small dairy farms, and what the future of farming might look like amid consolidation, regulation and new technology.
Chaz is a first-generation dairy farmer who runs Grassway Organics with his wife in East Troy, Wisconsin, managing roughly 640 acres and milking around 50 cows in a grass-based, seasonal dairy system.
A lot has changed since Chaz was last on the show. Grassway is now in an ongoing dispute with Wisconsin’s Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection over how the farm sells raw milk, with Chaz preparing for a legal fight that he believes could become extremely expensive. We get into how his ownership model works, why he believes the farm has operated legally, and why he has decided to keep pushing rather than step away. 
We also look at what has happened to Wisconsin dairy more broadly: fewer farms producing more milk, increasing consolidation, overproduction, subsidies and whether relatively simple changes like putting more young cattle back onto pasture could begin moving the system in another direction. We talk about Farm Bureau, social media and the growing political divide around food, before getting into the future of agricultural technology. 
Thanks for listening. 

What we cover:
Grassway Organics’ raw milk fight with Wisconsin
The decline and consolidation of Wisconsin dairy
Subsidies, grazing and possible paths forward
Farm Bureau, social media and polarization around food
AI, farm technology and what farming is actually for
Timestamps:
00:00 – Catching up with Chaz Self
02:01 – The raw milk fight in Wisconsin
10:07 – The cost of fighting regulation
19:48 – Lobbying for raw milk
26:28 – What happened to Wisconsin dairy?
29:23 – Could grazing help fix dairy?
34:31 – Does Farm Bureau represent farmers?
37:28 – Social media, politics and agriculture
44:52 – Rebuilding community around farms
53:41 – AI and technology on the farm
57:58 – Agricultural data and automation
1:01:29 – What is farming actually for?

Links & resources mentioned:
 
Website
Instagram
Facebook
Raw Milk Institute (RAWMI) — rawmilkinstitute.org
Mark McAfee / RAWMI team — RAWMI team page
Vernon Hershberger raw milk case — Wisconsin Court of Appeals case
Green Lake Association / John Strauser — Green Lake Association team
Joel Salatin / Polyface Farm — Polyface Farm
Wisconsin DATCP — Wisconsin Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection
Wisconsin Farm Bureau Federation — Wisconsin Farm Bureau
Wisconsin Farm Bureau policy page — Farm Bureau agricultural policy

I chat with Mark Ellison of Grandad Farms in Emmett, Idaho, about how a health-driven search for better food eventually led him to start raising his own chickens, pigs and laying hens.
Mark started with a borrowed patch of ground and a few hundred meat chickens. Today, Grandad Farms is raising animals on pasture, developing corn-and-soy-free feed, working toward organic certification and trying to build a farm to guide people to know exactly how their food was raised. 
We get into the economics behind his roughly $35 chickens and why comparing that directly with a $5 Costco rotisserie chicken misses a lot of what goes into each system. Mark explains his argument around subsidized corn and soy, labor costs and why he is willing to raise a slower-growing, more expensive bird.
We also talk about why he moved away from Cornish Cross chickens toward Freedom Rangers, what organic certification does and doesn’t tell you about how an animal was raised, the surprising reality of pasture-raised pigs, and what he has seen happen to his land after repeatedly moving poultry across it. 
Towards the end, the conversation gets into broader topics around raising children in a family business, Mark’s Christian understanding of stewardship, and why producing food for his neighbors is tied closely to how he thinks about faith and responsibility. 
Timestamps
00:00 – Intro: Mark Ellison, Grandad Farms
00:17 – Why Mark started farming
04:18 – Processing chickens and animal stewardship
06:29 – Corn-free, soy-free chicken feed
10:35 – Why a pasture chicken costs $35
18:47 – Labor and immigration in agriculture
25:01 – Stewardship and regenerative farming
27:00 – How chickens improve pasture
29:08 – Cornish Cross vs. Freedom Rangers
32:26 – What organic certification actually means
36:15 – Pasture pigs and factory pork
44:42 – Growing Grandad Farms
45:35 – Raising a family on the farm
48:00 – Farming, faith and Christianity
53:08 – Why customers seek out their food
Links
Website
X

I chat with Jesse Zimmerman, owner of Renick Valley Meats in Renick, West Virginia, to get into the butchering side of our food system - something I hadn't covered that deeply on the show yet.
They have a fascinating story: Jesse and his wife bought a struggling custom butcher shop four years ago and have since transitioned it into a state-inspected facility.
We get into the real differences between custom-exempt and inspected processing, the regulations that sound reasonable on paper but make no sense on the kill floor (the single-shot rule, a mandated 90-degree turn in holding pens), and why that complexity isn't accidental - it's a barrier that favors the big four packers over small shops like his.
We also cover the current imported-beef controversy, country-of-origin labeling, what actually happens to the 40% of an animal that isn't meat, and the specific questions you should ask any butcher shop before you trust them with your meat.
We debate whether policy alone can fix this system, and the importance of direct relationships built on trust in solving the matter.
Timestamps
00:00 – Intro: Jesse Zimmerman, Renick Valley Meats
04:45 – Custom-exempt vs. inspected processing
07:53 – The single-shot rule and inhumane-handling write-ups
15:23 – The real reason for the 90-degree pen turn
19:15 – Big four packer control and regulatory barriers to entry
22:20 – The 300,000-metric-ton imported beef controversy
26:46 – Country-of-origin labeling and how easy it is to skirt
38:58 – What happens to the ~40% "waste" of an animal
49:37 – Questions to ask before trusting a butcher shop
1:00:21 – Grass-fed/grass-finished nuance and imported "grass-fed" beef

Links
Website
Instagram
TikTok
YouTube
Facebook

Who's Jason?
Jason Hansen spent 14 years with the NRCS watching conservation rules bend for bigger, better-connected operators, and running cost-share programs structurally set up to fail the farmers they were meant to help. In 2018, he left USDA and founded Yield Unlimited.
What is Yield Unlimited?
Yield Unlimited is Jason Hansen's nonprofit that pays farmers directly, long-term, to run five core conservation practices - crop rotation, no-till/strip-till, cover crops, nutrient management, and (for a higher payout) prescribed grazing.
The model:
- Farmers apply for a land rental contract (30-second application, Jason's goal)
- Up to $2,000/acre over 10-30 years, 50% paid upfront
- Funded by donations, not federal money - pitch is $5/person/month covers the country
- Treasury notes lock in and grow the later payouts (years 10 and 20)
Why it matters:
USDA cost-share caps at 5 years, right when farmers hit the yield dip during transition.Yield Unlimited's long-term contracts are built to carry them through this period.
__________________________________________________________________________
Key Topics
14 years inside the NRCS, wetlands to DC headquarters
Uneven enforcement of drainage rules for connected operators
Why USDA's 5-year contracts fail farmers mid-transition
The 2018 moment that led to founding Yield Unlimited
The model: up to $2,000/acre, 10-30 year contracts
Funding it outside the federal system
Timestamps 
00:00 — Intro
02:15 — Jason's background
08:40 — Certifying wetlands in ND
15:20 — Drainage enforcement issues
24:00 — Utah, then district conservationist
31:10 — The moment with his daughter
36:30 — Why the RCPP grant failed
44:15 — Hawaii, then DC headquarters
50:00 — Leaving USDA, founding Yield Unlimited
55:30 — How the model works
1:01:00 — Funding conservation nationwide
1:07:00 — Where to follow along
Connect with Jason
Website
X
Linkedin

In this episode we cover why beef and dairy prices are climbing for reasons that go far beyond inflation, and what three decades of farm policy have cost rural America. 
JR Burdick runs Nourishing Family Farm in north-central Missouri, milking dairy cows and raising hogs, and has sold direct-to-consumer since 2023 after leaving conventional commodity markets and USDA subsidy programs in 2022. This is his third appearance on the show.
Key topics 
Why beef and dairy prices reflect a 30-year supply crisis, not inflation
How the 1994 Freedom to Farm Act shifted risk from government to farmers
How Smithfield-style integrators used farmer equity to consolidate the hog industry
The 2009 Dairy Depression and 2015 Holcomb fire's lasting effect on cattle herd confidence
Why cheap fuel, money, and labor are gone — and what that means for small farms
Direct-to-consumer dairy: correcting consumer misconceptions and building trust
JR's shift to organic farming and leaving USDA subsidy programs

Timestamps

0:00 – Intro, reconnecting with JR
2:00 – Affordability crisis: inflation vs. supply
5:00 – 1994 Freedom to Farm Act and the shift to income-based policy
9:00 – Hog contracts and the Smithfield equity play
16:00 – Ethanol/biodiesel bankruptcies and the 2009 Dairy Depression
23:00 – BSE scare and the 2015 Holcomb fire's lasting impact on cattle herds
28:00 – Cheap fuel, cheap money, cheap labor — and why that era's over
33:00 – Selling direct to consumer: listening over convincing
37:00 – Consumer misconceptions: winter grass, family milk cows
45:00 – The dairy farm decline stat and JR's bullish case for small, local farms
58:00 – The lettuce recall, greenwashing, and knowing your farmer
62:00 – Leaving USDA payments, faith, and the calf-birth story that keeps it all grounded

Connect with JR Burdick / Nourishing Farms

Facebook
X
Website

JR's Previous Episosdes

#66
#93