Lasers in Skin

• An Interview with... MIKE MURPHY!

  Lisa interviews a very special guest today - her dad, Mike Murphy, a true pioneer in medical aesthetic lasers. From being captivated by the moon landing as a kid to diving deep into physics and astronomy, Mike’s lifelong love of science eventually led him to make history by opening the world’s first private tattoo removal clinic using Q-switched lasers. His story is equal parts inspiring, nerdy, and groundbreaking. KEY TAKEAWAYS Mike Murphy was born in an RAF hospital in Germany and lived in various countries due to his father's military career, including Holland, Singapore, and Northern Ireland. His early curiosity about science and technology was influenced by significant events like the moon landing. In 1989, Mike and his colleagues established Dermalase, the world's first clinic using Q-switched Ruby lasers for tattoo removal. This clinic became a pioneer in the field, attracting clients from across the UK and even internationally. The company faced challenges, including a bankruptcy in 1996 due to a premature product launch in the U.S. market. Despite setbacks, Mike continued to innovate and adapt, eventually expanding into training and consulting in the laser industry. Mike is now focused on training professionals in the aesthetics field, emphasising the importance of proper education and safety standards in using laser technology. He is also working on new research projects and aims to continue contributing to advancements in the field. BEST MOMENTS "I was born in an RAF hospital in Germany, because all military bases across the sea are Crown property, so they're part of the UK." "You could have been Elvis in the laser world, that would be so cool." "We were the only clinic in the world, apart from the clinic in the hospital. We were the only private clinic at that time." "I wrote up a thesis to present for PhD and then I read it and didn't like it. I thought this is a pile of sugar." "You guys introduced aesthetic laser tattoo removal to the UK and the world." ABOUT THE HOSTS Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru. Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring. Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining https://mikemurphyblog.com https://www.dermalasetraining.com This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/

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• TRT Part 2 (Mike Couldn't Sleep)

  Today, Lisa and Mike delve into the intricacies of relaxation times in relation to laser treatments, particularly focusing on tattoo removal. They clarify previous discussions about the relevance of relaxation times, emphasising their importance when dealing with tiny ink particles in tattoos. They explore how these particles behave under laser energy, the mechanics of steam formation, and the differences between nanosecond and picosecond lasers. KEY TAKEAWAYS Relaxation time is crucial when considering tattoo removal because the tiny ink particles can lose heat rapidly. This means that the energy from the laser must be delivered in a short enough time to create steam bubbles that help break down the ink. While picosecond lasers are marketed as superior to nanosecond lasers, both can effectively remove tattoos. The difference in effectiveness may not justify the higher cost of picosecond lasers, especially since nanosecond lasers have been successfully used for decades. The process of tattoo removal involves heating the ink particles, which leads to steam formation. The explosive force from the steam causes the ink particles to break apart and disperse, making them easier for the body to eliminate. The pulse width of the laser is significant; shorter pulses (picoseconds) can deliver energy more effectively to create the necessary temperature rise for steam formation. However, nanosecond lasers can still achieve this effect, especially with proper technique. BEST MOMENTS "Relaxation time is much more important when you are considering tattoos. These particles are incredibly small, they can be easily down at like 40, 50, 60, 100 nanometres in size." "If you heat up these ink particles using laser energy, they will lose that energy extremely rapidly." "The ink gets hot and some of the heat diffuses into the water, creates steam and the macrophages explode." "I always say it depends on your budget, but also how much money have you got to waste?" "Sometimes the old stuff is still very relevant because it still works." ABOUT THE HOSTS Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru. Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring. Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining https://mikemurphyblog.com https://www.dermalasetraining.com This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/

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• Is It A Surprise We Don't Like This? No..

  Today, Mike and Lisa dive into a passionate discussion about the ongoing debate between two hair removal techniques: stamping and Super Hair Removal (SHR). Lisa expresses her frustration over misleading social media posts that claim stamping is outdated and ineffective, while SHR is the superior method. They explore the importance of technique in both methods, emphasising that neither is inherently better if not applied correctly. KEY TAKEAWAYS Both stamping and Super Hair Removal (SHR) techniques can be effective for laser hair removal, but their success heavily depends on proper application. Incorrect techniques can lead to ineffective results regardless of the method used. The fluence (energy delivered per unit area) is crucial for both stamping and SHR. Low fluence levels can result in inadequate heat accumulation in hair follicles, leading to poor treatment outcomes. New claims about lasers being safe for tanned skin are met with scepticism. The skin's response to tanning indicates underlying damage, and treating tanned skin with lasers can pose risks of further damage and ineffective results. Claims about the effectiveness of SHR and its advantages over stamping should be backed by credible research. The lack of accessible studies supporting these claims raises concerns about their validity. It is essential to prioritise client safety by advising against laser treatments on tanned skin. Proper healing time should be observed to avoid potential skin damage and ensure effective treatment outcomes. BEST MOMENTS "So these things I get sent from different laser techs or people that we've trained, kind of just saying, huh, is this right? And obviously then we have to say, meh. Maybe not." "If you're doing too big an area, the target is going to be reducing its temperature every time before you get back to it." "The problem is though, as far as I can tell, most people are not doing it correctly." "What people have to understand is that when you get a tan, what you are essentially seeing is the result of a damaged skin." "It's a really dangerous thing to be promoting as new technology. It's not new technology." ABOUT THE HOSTS Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru. Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring. Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining https://mikemurphyblog.com https://www.dermalasetraining.com This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/

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• Curious Things

  Lisa and Mike delve into a series of curious cases they've encountered in their laser treatment practice. They discuss unusual reactions from clients, including prolonged redness after cooling treatments and unexpected swelling in sensitive areas. The conversation also touches on the challenges of treating stubborn hair in the bikini area and the complexities of tattoo removal, particularly with dense ink KEY TAKEAWAYS One client experienced prolonged redness on her lower legs after laser hair removal treatments, suggesting a possible mild inflammatory response to the cooling process rather than the laser itself. This highlights the importance of monitoring individual reactions to treatments. Another client, who is very sensitive to cold, had a significant reaction after a standard cooling duration. Adjusting the cooling time to less than two minutes still yielded good treatment results, indicating that individual sensitivity should be considered in treatment protocols. Labia hairs are noted to be particularly stubborn during hair removal treatments. Many practitioners face difficulties achieving complete removal in this area, which may be due to deeper hair follicles and the unique tissue composition of the labia. A case involving a client's tattoo removal revealed that excessive ink density in a specific area led to severe blistering and infection. This suggests that the amount of ink and the depth at which it is placed can significantly affect the healing process and treatment outcomes. BEST MOMENTS "The fact that she's seen this for days afterwards is very strange. That kind of suggests there is some sort of mild inflammatory response to the cooling." "Labia hairs are bloody stubborn. It's a well-known fact in the industry that it's not just a few people struggling with that area." "If you have an excess of ink put into a particular area, then you're going to have an excess of microscarring." "I suspect that is most likely down to the very high density of ink in that particular region." ABOUT THE HOSTS Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru. Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring.   Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining https://mikemurphyblog.com  https://www.dermalasetraining.com This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/

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• What is 'Sideways Scattering'?

  Light Scattering and Laser Treatments: What You Need to Know In this episode of Lasers in Skin, Lisa and Mike explain how light scatters in the skin during laser treatments. They uncover the risks of treating tattoos, pigmentation, and permanent makeup (PMU), and debunk the myth that white tape or pencil can safely protect tattoos. Listeners will also hear about Mike’s upcoming experiment on different light wavelengths and what it means for safer, more effective laser procedures. KEY TAKEAWAYS Light scattering in skin – how lasers and light bounce within the dermis, creating risks if not carefully managed. Risks of treating tattoos – why lasers and IPL near tattoos can cause unintended damage or unwanted changes. Why distance matters – maintaining a safe distance from tattoos and pigmented areas is critical, with factors like wavelength and skin type influencing the risk. Permanent Makeup (PMU) concerns – the pigments used in PMU can react unpredictably to lasers, causing colour shifts or skin damage. Professional assessment is essential – moles and pigmented areas should always be checked by qualified professionals before laser treatments to ensure safety. BEST MOMENTS "The light scatters all over the place, in the dermis and everywhere, and back out of the skin. But the sideways scattering is what could cause problems if you are treating close to a tattoo or to some pigmentation." "If you fire a millisecond laser at tattoos, then we do not get the same sort of reaction that you would with a Q-switched or picosecond laser." "You can't just laser on top of this and hope it's going to be okay, which I've seen people do just because they're trained to do that." "The darker colours, the browns and blacks, they'll absorb quite strongly. The reds and yellows will absorb quite poorly. So what's going to happen is the browns and the black colours, they'll fade preferentially." "If we're going to be going over freckles, we might remove these freckles. As long as people are happy with us to do that, then I'm happy to go ahead." HOST BIOS Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru. Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring.   Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining https://mikemurphyblog.com  https://www.dermalasetraining.com This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/

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